Full transcript of
On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Nationwide Safety Adviser Mike Waltz
- Rep. Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky
- Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut
- Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissoner
- CBS Information correspondents Camilo Montoya-Galvez and Scott MacFarlane
Click on right here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: The tsunami of exercise shaking up Washington and past continues. And President Trump prods Ukraine and Russia towards peace.
In a single day, the U.S. pounded Iranian-backed Houthi targets in Yemen once more. And the backlash grows over the Trump administration’s deportation of alleged Venezuelan gang members. We are going to discuss to White Home Nationwide Safety Adviser Mike Waltz, the top of the Senate Homeland Safety Committee Kentucky Republican Rand Paul, and the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Connecticut’s Jim Himes.
In the meantime, members of Congress might have been pleased to move residence for recess final week, however now they might be desperate to get again to Washington.
(Start VT)
MAN: Do you share a priority that we’re careening towards an authoritarian nation?
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: As elected officers on each side of the aisle bought an earful from indignant constituents.
(Start VT)
MAN #1: The message that was despatched by Democrats in Congress with the C.R. disaster was clear. It isn’t that you simply’re within the minority. It is that you simply aren’t even working collectively on a shared technique. And that’s failure!
MAN #2: Why do you consider that President Trump is above the regulation? Why have you ever not spoken out for it?
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Plus, measles infections have now been reported in 18 states. We are going to seek the advice of with former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb about that and discuss concerning the influence of Trump’s cuts on medical analysis.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
There’s a lot to cowl on the house entrance, however we start first on nationwide safety. In only a few hours, U.S. officers can be holding talks with Ukraine and tomorrow a separate spherical with Russia in pursuit of a 30-day cease-fire.
Within the meantime, the Trump administration is ramping up the U.S. navy presence within the Center East, sending a second plane provider to the area.
We start this morning with White Home Nationwide Safety Adviser Mike Waltz.
Good to have you ever right here.
MIKE WALTZ (U.S. Nationwide Safety Adviser): Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the Iran-backed Houthis, they proceed to fireplace at Israel. What has the final week of bombing achieved? And should you’re holding Iran accountable, what’s subsequent?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Properly, we’ve taken out key Houthi management, together with their head missileer. Now we have hit their headquarters. Now we have hit communications nodes, weapons factories, and even a few of their over-the-water drone manufacturing amenities simply within the final couple of days.
President Trump has determined to hit the Houthis and hit them laborious, versus, within the final administration, the place actually weeks or months would go by with these form of one-off pinprick assaults. And, because of this, we’ve had one of many world’s most important sea lanes get shut down.
I imply, these guys are like al Qaeda or ISIS with superior cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and a number of the most refined air defenses, all offered by Iran, Margaret. Simply to – so everyone understands the influence right here…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: … the final time certainly one of our destroyers went by means of the straits there, it was attacked 23 occasions; 75 p.c of our U.S.-flagged transport now has to go across the southern coast of Africa, reasonably than going by means of the Suez Canal.
And retaining the ocean lanes open, retaining commerce and commerce open…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: … is a basic side of our nationwide safety. The final administration was not efficient.
The Trump administration and President Trump have determined to do one thing a lot more durable, a lot harder, and far – and what – we are going to see, however I believe can be rather more efficient.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the president stated he will maintain Iran accountable as effectively. Envoy Steve Witkoff stated in an interview that Iran had responded to this U.S. outreach by way of a number of channels in regard to a letter despatched by the president.
Witkoff described it as a suggestion to Iran to create a verification program so no person worries about weaponization of nuclear materials. Are you able to make clear, is the U.S. searching for the dismantlement of Iran’s nuclear program or verification, like what President Obama put in place again in 2015 and President Trump pulled out of?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Full dismantlement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Iran has to surrender its program in a manner that the whole world can see.
And that is – look, as President…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have they stated they’re ?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: As President Trump has stated, that is coming to a head. All choices are on the desk.
And it’s time for Iran to stroll away fully from its want to have a nuclear weapon. That – and they won’t and can’t be allowed to have a nuclear weapons program.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have they responded to the president’s name for these talks?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: That is enrichment, that’s weaponization, and that’s its strategic missile program.
Are you able to solely think about?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Now we have seen the demise and destruction that they are doing by means of its proxies, between Hezbollah, the Assad regime, the Houthis and what have you ever. If that they had nuclear weapons, the whole Center East would explode in an arms race.
That’s fully unacceptable to our nationwide safety. I will not get into what the back-and-forth has been, however Iran is within the worst place it has been from its personal nationwide safety since 1979, due to Hezbollah, Hamas, the Assad regime and its personal air defenses being taken out by the Israelis.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there’s nonetheless an opportunity for diplomacy? I do know you will not get into…
(CROSSTALK)
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Properly, in fact.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: The president has all choices on the desk, however we need to be clear.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: This is not some form of – form of tit for tat that we had underneath the Obama administration or Biden.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: That is the complete program. Give it up or there can be penalties.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you, nearer to residence, what has been taking place right here with Tren de Aragua, TDA, we’ll name them, which have been designated by the Trump administration as terrorists.
Final Saturday, 238 Venezuelan males had been handed over to the federal government of El Salvador; 137 of them had been deported utilizing this not often used 1789 Alien Enemies Act. That is vital as a result of it offers the ability to detain and deport with out a courtroom listening to first if they arrive from nations at warfare with the U.S.
Within the listening to on Friday, it was revealed that El Salvador, the place they’re being held, rejected two of the individuals, one on the idea of gender, as a result of it was a lady and so they cannot be held at a maximum-security jail, the opposite as a result of the particular person wasn’t even Venezuelan in any respect.
How does that form of high-consequence mistake occur?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Properly, these form of one-offs, we are going to cope with on a person foundation.
However, Margaret, the underlying concern right here is twofold.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there was a mistake that you simply acknowledge there?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: I – I am unable to converse to these particular person circumstances and the main points of the person circumstances.
However what I can converse to is, President Trump has decided that this group is appearing as a terrorist group. It’s terrorizing our communities by means of assaults, torture, rape and essentially the most terrible of conditions for these communities, primary.
And, quantity two, the Alien Sedition Act absolutely applies as a result of we’ve additionally decided that this group is appearing as a proxy of the Maduro regime. So…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve gotten – I am sorry, simply to make clear on that, that is supposed to use if the U.S. is at warfare with a rustic. You might be saying you may have proof that the federal government of Venezuela is directing these gangs?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: We’re saying – we’re saying – we’re saying that TDA is appearing as a proxy of the Maduro regime. That is how the Alien Sedition Act applies. And we can not have district judges interfering with the commander in chief’s actions to handle in the best way he deems vital a terrorist group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the U.S. is at warfare with Venezuela?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: And I bought to inform you, we are able to – we are able to debate on Article II, Article III. That is a good debate.
Nevertheless, on this case, the commander in chief, President Trump, is taking decisive motion to rid our communities of those gangs which can be working in a paramilitary trend.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: And that we all know Maduro is intentionally emptying his prisons…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: … in a proxy method to affect and assault the USA.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is totally different – that is so totally different…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: However that is how…
MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.S. is just not at warfare with the nation of Venezuela.
I do know the legal professional common stated on one other community…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Look, this isn’t…
MARGARET BRENNAN: … she thinks that is going to go to the Supreme Courtroom.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Certain. That is high quality. However…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You need to have this struggle.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: No, however, Margaret, we’ve situations the place the IRGC from Iran have operated to – by, with and thru Mexican cartels, to then bomb amenities right here in the USA. Now we have taken decisive motion in that regard. We’ll take decisive motion on this regard.
And we’re making a Washington, D.C., distinction…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: … when the American individuals are bored with being terrorized by these gangs. So…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nobody is defending gangs. However there may be concern…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Properly, however it sounds prefer it. It actually sounds prefer it from the Democrats on the opposite aspect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There may be concern that that is being carried out in a sloppy manner.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: It seems like within the case of this decide that wished to show a flight round filled with gang members that had intelligence packets that had decided what they’re doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was a lady despatched to a males’s – man’s jail, and El Salvador stated no.
(LAUGHTER)
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: I imply, OK.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So it is the query of, should you’re suspending the flexibility to have a day in courtroom…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Look, I am unable to converse to the these particular person particulars, if you wish to…
MARGARET BRENNAN: … that you simply get the checklist proper, proper…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: However underneath – proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … which you can confirm that these individuals are gang members.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: However underneath – look, each certainly one of them had been right here illegally.
So, to start with, we had each proper and each – and will deport each certainly one of these people. If you wish to make a particular case for one, that is high quality.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However they weren’t deported. They had been despatched to the jail.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: However underlying that – underlying that’s the Alien Act that has decided the commander in chief has absolutely the authority to do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We are going to discuss this extra with the Homeland Safety Committee chair, Rand Paul, forward, I am positive.
I have to get to Ukraine with you as a result of that is lively diplomacy, as we talked about. The Ukrainians accepted this U.S. cease-fire with out preconditions, in keeping with the announcement. The Russians stated solely holding again on power infrastructure.
What is the aim out of those talks which can be about to start in Saudi Arabia?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Sure, effectively, first, we’re shifting nearer and we’re nearer to peace than we ever have been. This began with President Trump speaking to each leaders again to again.
We then – Secretary of State Rubio and I engaged the Russians, engaged the Ukrainians at our stage, and now we’ve technical groups truly with Ukrainians and Russians in the identical facility conducting proximity talks.
And the development can be, we’ve this cease-fire on aerial infrastructure. That went in place instantly after President Trump’s name with President Putin this week. We are actually going to speak a few Black Sea maritime cease-fire, in order that each side can transfer grain, gas and begin conducting commerce once more within the Black Sea.
After which we are going to discuss the road of management, which is the precise entrance traces. And that will get into the main points of verification mechanisms, peacekeeping, freezing the traces the place they’re, after which, in fact, the broader and everlasting peace, which can be some sort of debate of territory for everlasting peace and an enduring peace, what the Ukrainians have a tendency to speak about or have talked about as safety ensures.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of many issues the president has stated he desires to see is the return of those Ukrainian kids who had been kidnapped as a part of a state program…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … by Russia to Russify them, take them from their households and transfer them into Russia.
Why did the State Division minimize off funding to one of many packages that helps discover these children? It is a Yale College program. They usually stated – the cash was minimize off. There are senators, together with Grassley and Tillis, who need to know why. Are you aware why?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Properly, Secretary Rubio is conducting a evaluate of all of these packages. I am unable to converse to that particular one.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of it appears at odds with the aim.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: However I can say that President Trump has spoken to each leaders about prisoner exchanges. Each the Russians and Ukrainians exchanged prisoners, practically 200, instantly following their name.
And he is additionally talked about the way forward for these kids. In order that’s actually initially in form of confidence-building measures.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: However, once more, Margaret, we’ve to take a step again. Now we have to take a step again.
Only a few months in the past, nobody was speaking about how this warfare would finish. And we’ve to ask ourselves, what wouldn’t it seem like a yr from now, two years from now, three years from now?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: We had been in an countless stalemate right here. And now we’ve each side in the identical facility with the USA actually dwelling out, I believe, in actual time President Trump’s imaginative and prescient to finish this warfare, which he campaigned on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Simply to be clear, are you asking for the discharge of those kids as a confidence-building measure? Is that what you meant?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: We’re speaking by means of quite a lot of confidence-building measures. That is certainly one of them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Thanks, Mike Waltz.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE WALTZ: Thanks. All proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation can be again in a minute.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we flip now to Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul. He’s the chair of the Homeland Safety Committee. And he joins us this morning from Bowling Inexperienced, Kentucky.
Good morning to you, Senator.
As a result of…
SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-Kentucky): Good morning. Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Certain.
Due to your function in on Homeland Safety, I need to observe up the place we left off with Nationwide Safety Adviser Waltz. There are authorized questions round utilizing these authorities to ship out detainees with out giving them a day in courtroom, however there’s additionally simply questions of the way it’s being dealt with in regard to those people who had been rejected by El Salvador, one for gender, one as a result of they weren’t Venezuelan in any respect.
Do these concern – does any of this concern you, together with claims from their members of the family that many of those individuals weren’t gang members?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: , there are some huge authorized questions right here.
On the one hand, the Invoice of Rights applies to everybody, to individuals. The Invoice of Rights does not particularly designate residents. It is actually anybody in the USA the Invoice of Rights applies to. Alternatively, the Alien Enemies Act merely says, you actually do not get a lot course of. The president can merely declare that you’re one way or the other an issue for overseas coverage and against our overseas coverage and you may be deported.
So, actually, finally, this goes to the courtroom, after which the courtroom’s going to must resolve, are they going to declare unconstitutional a regulation that is been round for a pair hundred years or are they going to defer to Congress?
In case you take a look at the TikTok determination not too long ago, which I do not agree with, however within the TikTok determination, the courtroom mainly stated, we’ll defer to Congress. Congress says that is about nationwide safety, and who’re we to query? And I believe they need to have dominated primarily based on…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, after which the president issued an government order that defied the congressional – what Congress did.
(LAUGHTER)
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Sure. Proper. Proper.
However my level is, is, I believe the courtroom ought to have dominated on the First Modification with regard to TikTok and never stated, oh, effectively, no matter Congress desires. However should you take a look at the TikTok determination and also you needed to guess what the Supreme County goes to do, my guess is, they may uphold the Alien Enemies Act. It isn’t essentially my place, however I believe the courtroom will uphold it.
So it is no less than debatable on each side who’s proper or who’s incorrect right here. And I believe it isn’t appropriate for Democrats to easily say…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: … oh, it is constitutional chaos, there is no leg to face on. There truly is authorized authority on the one hand that is been round for over 200 years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
However simply – we’re not speaking about partisan politics. We’re speaking concerning the courts proper now and what the decide stated he had questions on and talks about this being performed primarily within the cowl of night time. This appears to be an argument the administration desires to have go to the Supreme Courtroom.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you snug with bypassing what you described as, you realize, what’s assured within the Invoice of Rights, a day in courtroom, or no less than some verification that a few of these individuals truly are responsible ultimately of what they’re accused of, which is membership in a gang?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: So we’ve a contradiction. We mainly have the Structure that claims everybody, individuals in the USA have due course of rights, have the Invoice of Rights on their aspect.
However we even have regulation that has been in energy for 200 years saying, oh, effectively, besides when the president desires to deport individuals. So, these are in battle. There should be some decision-making.
On the query of whether or not or not a district decide could make a ruling for the entire nation, that is additionally a really huge query. And I believe, as this works its manner as much as the Supreme Courtroom, if you get to the Supreme Courtroom, I do consider the Supreme Courtroom goes to restrict district judges from having nationwide rulings.
So I believe that is additionally within the offing. However these are big authorized questions. And the one manner they start is by a problem.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: If the president does not problem these, they by no means have standing and by no means get to courtroom. So, on the one hand, the president is producing this, however it’s the one option to generate a remaining conclusion from the courtroom.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It simply sounds – I imply, these are debates for regulation professors, actually. However, within the meantime, there are people who might have been despatched wrongly to those amenities which can be exterior the U.S. jurisdiction.
Are you snug, as the person with oversight as chair of the committee, with what’s being performed?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I believe the courts will rule that there needs to be some course of.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, sure, you are snug with it?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I do not assume you are going to have the ability to deport individuals – so, no, I – effectively, I do not assume – you are answering for me.
I believe there may be going to be some course of afforded by the courts for illustration earlier than you are deported typically. I do not know concerning the ones underneath the Alien Enemies Act, and I am undecided anyone is aware of that. And, whereas I really like constitutional regulation, I am not a constitutional lawyer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I do assume it goes to the Supreme Courtroom, and there are arguments to be made on each side of this query.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Received it.
I need to ask you about some congressional enterprise. I’ve seen it reported that you’ve got pitched to Elon Musk a plan to claw again $500 billion in federal funding that Congress has already accepted. There was an effort again in 2018 to do one thing like this, and it failed.
Do you assume you’ll be able to truly get this performed in a rescission bundle, and the way a lot cash do you assume you may get again?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Properly, this goes to a different big authorized query. Can the president impound cash, or does he must ship it again, and we approve the cuts by means of rescission?
And that is going all the best way to the Supreme Courtroom additionally, as a result of I believe the Trump administration believes they will simply not spend it. There’s one other query inside the query, can the president and his individuals – can Secretary Rubio pause the spending?
On that concern, I believe they may win. It is possible for you to to pause spending so long as you do not undergo the tip of an appropriations yr. In case you get by means of that, I consider it is impoundment. And I believe the courts to this point have stated it has to come back again…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: … until, because the Trump administration argues, that the Impoundment Act is unconstitutional.
So this one’s headed to the Supreme Courtroom additionally. It’s my private perception we must always adhere to the regulation as it’s now, and that’s ship it again and have Congress verify it. It is a easy majority vote. It is known as rescission. I did point out this to Elon Musk.
He appeared enthusiastic it may be performed. No Democrats – you need to notice…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: … no Democrat will minimize one penny from any spending anyplace.
However can we get all of the Republicans is the true query.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You will get 51 Republicans, you assume, to get on board with this?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Properly, I believe the president goes to have – the president goes to have to make use of successfully his bully pulpit and his recognition to persuade all Republicans to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: It isn’t a on condition that Republicans will stand – will vote for this.
We tried it as soon as within the first administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, I keep in mind.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: It was solely $15 billion. And we misplaced. We misplaced two Republicans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Two Republicans.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: However my suggestion to the Trump – my suggestion to the Trump administration is, come to the Republicans who you watched may need misgivings and persuade them prematurely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: Do not put it of their lap. Convey them $500 billion. And if they are saying, this $10 billion, I am unable to cope with, I can cope with the 490, you are going to must pre-negotiate the rescissions bundle.
However I believe you can get there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you concerning the Division of Training.
States, as everybody, I believe, is aware of, present the vast majority of the funding and oversight to your native colleges. However Kentucky, once we appeared on the numbers, will get the fourth most federal schooling funding per scholar of any state on this nation. You’ve gotten over 900 colleges which have these Title I packages, that are low-income colleges who want that federal subsidy to proceed to function.
How are colleges going to get that cash if the president closes the Training Division?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I believe the larger query, if we’re sending all this cash to Kentucky and all the opposite states, why are our scores abysmal? Why do two-thirds of the children not learn at proficiency? Why do two-thirds of the children or extra not have math proficiency?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is not that as much as the state?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: So, it has been an utter failure. What I would wish to – let me end.
I would go away it again to the states. It has all the time been a place, a really mainstream Republican place, to have management of the faculties by the states, ship the cash again to the states, or, higher but, by no means take it from the states.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: About half of our funds in Kentucky goes to schooling, and that is the identical in loads of states.
I believe we are able to deal with it significantly better. After I discuss to lecturers, they chafe on the nationwide mandates on testing, they assume should not acceptable for his or her children. They assume they waste an excessive amount of time educating to nationwide testing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: The lecturers would love extra autonomy, and I believe the lecturers deserve extra autonomy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However once we appeared on the funds in Kentucky, the state receives $2 billion in federal schooling funding. Do you may have a assure that the federal authorities, federal taxpayers will nonetheless present $2 billion in schooling funding? That appears vital to your state.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: I would reasonably – effectively, no, I would reasonably is a assure that my children can learn and write and do math.
The quantity of {dollars} – look, the variety of {dollars} has gone up exponentially and our scores have gone the opposite manner. So {dollars} should not proportional to academic success. What I would like is success. And I’ve talked loads about this. I believe there are improvements we are able to do the place there’s extra studying by way of a number of the greatest lecturers and we pay them extra.
I want to have an NBA or NFL of lecturers, essentially the most extraordinary lecturers, train the whole nation, if not the whole world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who would run that, the Training Division?
SENATOR RAND PAUL: And a few of them – no, what you’ll discover is, they’d be chosen out state by state, throughout the nation.
Look, individuals say, oh, with out the Division of Training, we might haven’t any testing. I used to be at school earlier than then. We did achievement exams within the sixth grade, the fifth grade, the eighth grade, and we in contrast ourselves throughout state traces. There have been worldwide testing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: You do not want the Division of Training for any of that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: However what I can inform you is, the very best instructor on the earth is just not educating the children.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: What we have to do is have the very best lecturers and pay them extra.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR RAND PAUL: However they would not train 30 children. They could train 10 million children at a time as a result of it could be offered by means of the Web, with native lecturers reinforcing the teachings.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Properly, I am positive we can be speaking extra about this. Senator Paul, thanks to your time right this moment.
We can be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we can be proper again with the highest Democrat within the Home Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
We flip now to the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes. He joins us this morning from Greenwich.
Good morning to you.
I need to soar proper into it on the dialog about this Venezuelan gang. You’ve gotten stated a few of your fellow Democrats have been too fast to make use of the time period constitutional disaster. However due to the usage of the Alien Enemies Act and this gang, you may have began to turn out to be involved that is the place we’re. Are you able to clarify that?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-CT): Sure, that is proper, Margaret, and thanks for having me.
, constitutional disaster is a – a kind of broadly used time period. A number of individuals have totally different definitions for it. It is loads of stuff you do not like.
I am going to inform you what I do know is a constitutional disaster. If the president of the USA decides to disregard the orders of a courtroom – we’ve not seen that since Andrew Jackson did that in 1834. When that occurs, you may have a supine on its again Congress of the USA, fully beholden to the president, not appearing as a examine. And if the president says, I do not care what the courtroom – courts say, which, by the best way, he has not stated, however which Tom Homan, his czar for deportation has stated, now you may have a full-blown constitutional disaster.
So, I believe these subsequent couple of days, as we see how this administration goes after the numerous judges and the numerous courts – many of those judges appointed by Republican presidents who’re stopping the wild and unlawful actions of this administration, we’ll see whether or not we’re in a real, you realize, Jacksonian constitutional disaster.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Due to your function on the Intelligence Committee, I do know you may have some visibility into the assessments of U.S. intelligence. “The New York Instances” reported that the intelligence group stated, with reasonable confidence, that the gang, TDA, that we have been speaking about, is just not directed by the Venezuelan authorities. Nevertheless, the nationwide safety advisor simply instructed us on this program, TDA is appearing as a proxy of the Venezuelan authorities. Why does that distinction matter?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Sure, effectively, it does not matter. And I am going to come again round to that.
However look, what – what – what individuals fear about is that this administration acts with an unbelievable form of cocktail of incompetence and illegality. Once you hearth all the individuals on the Division of Vitality who take care of our nuclear weapons after which say, oops, we have to rent you again, that is incompetence.
I listened to Mike. Mike is a good friend of mine. I’ve respect for Mike. However what he did was dodge your query. I am not a lawyer, however I can learn the primary paragraph of the Aliens Enemy Act, which says very clearly that the authority that this administration claims relies on a declaration of warfare.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Not on appearing as a proxy. So, Mike distorted the regulation. And, you realize, I learn “The New York Instances” article, too. I have never seen particular intelligence about whether or not there’s any connection by any means between Venezuela and the TDA gang.
However you are proper, “The New York Instances” – and, by the best way, I am going to get a solution on this tomorrow and I’ll have some questions for Mike. “The New York Instances,” in fact, reported that there is – that the intelligence group believes that there is not a significant connection between Venezuela and the TDA gang. So, once more, it is a weird mixture of appearing incompetently as a result of possibly there is a Venezuelan hairdresser, a homosexual Venezuelan hairdresser with no connection to TDA. And if he is on this nation illegally, high quality, deport him. However to do it on this manner underneath authorities that aren’t authorized is just not the best way to do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
You are – you are referring there to some reporting in “Time” journal about what occurred to a few of these – one specific detainee. On Friday, the Justice Division introduced a felony investigation into what they described because the leak of categorized intelligence about this group, TDA. The deputy legal professional common stated they will not “tolerate politically motivated efforts by the deep state to undercut President Trump’s agenda by leaking false info” to “The New York Instances.”
Do you may have any concern – or is there concern inside the intelligence group about these leaks?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: There’s all the time issues about leaks, Margaret. As rating member of the Intelligence Committee, I do not care who a leak advantages. Whether or not it advantages Joe Biden or Donald Trump or no matter, they don’t seem to be OK. They’re violations of the regulation.
It’s extremely fascinating although that characterization that you simply simply learn, that we are going to not tolerate leaks which can be inconsistent with President Trump’s agenda. And this will get at certainly one of my worst fears with respect to the nationwide safety operates underneath Donald Trump. Every little thing is about Donald Trump, proper? And the place I work, inside and overseeing the intelligence group, it’s completely important that the intelligence group be about one factor and one factor solely, which is giving Donald Trump and different nationwide leaders unvarnished, unbiased advise. And if that is all about serving the president’s agenda, that may be a notion that’s fully at odds with what the intelligence group and what we spend $90 billion on ensuring that policymakers, the president chief amongst them, has good info.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I used to be listening to a city corridor that you simply did this previous Thursday in Connecticut, and also you had been requested who the chief of the Democratic Occasion is. You threw out a number of the kind of identified entities, governors on the market, however you stated, “whereas the celebration’s not leaderless, Hakeem Jeffries is younger and untested and Chief Schumer is just not a wartime president.”
Do you assume that your celebration can afford to remain the course with the present management they’ve?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Margaret, I believe we are able to do loads higher job with the management that we had. What I used to be acknowledging within the city corridor assembly – and I’ll inform you, I’ve seen loads of city corridor conferences. I noticed Chuck Grassley’s city corridor assembly. I noticed my colleagues from Wyoming – ruby purple Wyoming’s time within the barrel.
And individuals are outraged. They’re outraged primarily, by the best way, as a result of they’re coming to know what Medicaid cuts are going to seem like for them, what it means to obliterate packages that a lot of the nation – 70 million individuals within the case of Medicaid – depend on. So, there’s an immense quantity of anger.
What I do know is that it was not a very good search for the 2 congressional Democratic leaders to be on reverse sides of the persevering with decision. That created quite a lot of adjita (ph) on the market, and legitimately so. So, I’m fairly sure that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have discovered from this expertise and are going to, at a minimal, be unified going ahead right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We are going to see.
Congressman Jim Himes, we’ll be watching you and that worldwide risk briefing that can be taking place this coming week.
We’ll be proper again.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to America’s well being care system and former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He is additionally a board member at Pfizer.
Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, measles is now in 18 states, as I perceive it. Largely Texas and New Mexico. However we’ve seen a rising variety of infections, significantly in kids.
What do dad and mom have to know and are adults protected?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Adults who’ve been vaccinated must be protected. This vaccine gives sturdy immunity. And there is no advice that anybody who’s already been vaccinated, had the complete schedule of two doses of vaccine once they had been kids, would wish to get one other booster. But when individuals are involved, they will examine their titers (ph). The one advice that CDC makes is people who find themselves caring for these with measles, maybe well being care staff, would possibly contemplate a further booster later in life.
The larger problem is with kids. So, kids get vaccinated, as you realize, at one yr, after which once more once they’re coming into faculty at round age 4. There is a window the place kids most likely do not have loads of immunity. So, a baby born, has some immunity handed from their mother up till about six months. However there is a window between six and 12 months the place they’re largely unprotected. Usually, we do not vaccinate at six months as a result of infants do not have developed immune methods the place they will develop a sturdy immunity from an immunization like this. However there’s some suggestions now that kids, between the ages of six and 12 months, would possibly get a primary dose of vaccine. They might nonetheless require a second dose at age one and a 3rd dose at age 4.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I noticed the previous CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, was speaking about that this previous week.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The present secretary of HHS, Secretary Kennedy, has stated he desires anybody who needs the vaccine MMR to have the ability to get one. However he additionally describes himself as a, quote, “freedom of selection particular person.” I need to get your evaluation of what gave the impression to be a instructed different remedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (HHS Secretary): They’re getting very, superb outcomes they report from Budesonide (ph), which is a steroid. It is a 30- year-old steroid. They usually’re – and erythromycin (ph) and likewise cod liver oil, which has excessive – excessive concentrations of vitamin a and vitamin d. And they’re seeing what they describe as virtually miraculous, instantaneous restoration from that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are these viable alternate options?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: They don’t seem to be viable alternate options to vaccination. And I would a lot want if he made a full-throated advice to folks to get children vaccinated, particularly in a setting of the areas the place there’s virus now spreading. He is speaking about steroids and antibiotics. These will use within the setting of a kid who has developed pneumonitis, who’s hospitalized, has respiratory misery. And so that you would possibly dose them with antibiotics to forestall secondary infections. And steroids can cut back a number of the irritation within the lungs. The hope is kids do not get into that form of distressed scenario as a result of they have been vaccinated.
So far as vitamin a is anxious, there’s actually scant proof that it is efficient on this setting. It is used within the setting of malnourished kids the place it’d present some profit. However I believe speaking about these sorts of therapeutics on this context creates a misunderstanding that there is remedies obtainable for measles when, in actual fact, there’s not. The one option to forestall measles and forestall the sequelic (ph) from measles is to get vaccinated.
, it is the identical manner individuals might contemplate whether or not or not they select to get vaccinated for influenza, for the flu. Some individuals would possibly decide to not get vaccinated as a result of they know therapeutics can be found. I actually would suggest that – that they do this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I believe everybody ought to get vaccinated for influenza. However some individuals would possibly make that selection. There isn’t a selection on this setting. There’s nothing efficient at mitigating the results of measles when you get it. So, the one manner to do this is to get vaccinated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, the CDC web site describes vitamin a as supportive care, however vaccination the very best protection. So, thanks for explaining that.
There is not any CDC director proper now. The administration needed to pull their nominee, as you realize, as a result of they could not get sufficient votes. Alex Tin (ph) right here at CBS is reporting Florida’s surgeon common and a former Texas congressman, Michael Burgess, are each being floated for the job. How vital is it to get somebody confirmed and within the function rapidly?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure, I believe it is essential, particularly if you see what is going on on across the nation with this measles outbreak in west Texas. We might have extra measles circumstances this yr than we have had in 25 years. And so having management on the CDC that may direct that response is exceedingly vital.
Mike Burgess ran the well being subcommittee on power and commerce, labored intently with the FDA once I was there. He was superb, very efficient. He did loads – loads to advance our interdiction work in mail amenities to cease opioids from flowing by means of these amenities. He was very devoted to that effort. Really visited the mail facility in New York at JFK Airport to see firsthand the operation earlier than he led a cost in Congress to assist present extra funding to get extra inspectors into the amenities. He has loads of expertise in loads of the areas the place CDC has a really related mission.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They usually’ll must face a possible vote as soon as the president makes a range right here.
I need to ask about a number of the byproducts and a few of them deliberate cuts from the president’s so-called belt-tightening right here. There have been impacts at, for instance, Johns Hopkins, an institute that does medical analysis and receives USAID grants. There are additionally deliberate cuts which were vowed at Columbia and UPenn, two universities that get federal funding and do well being analysis. Do you may have any perception into what number of well being packages or the importance of the well being packages that can be affected?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure, I do not assume anybody has perception into it but. I believe that is nonetheless taking part in out. These impacts are taking place throughout a few totally different domains. There may be restrictions on the flexibility to go ahead with new grants due to limitations, for instance, posting issues within the federal register. There’s new grant making insurance policies which can be being carried out. So, sure entities, sure nations are being added to lists the place you’ll be able to’t do analysis. There have been not too long ago some grants canceled that coincided with analysis that might be performed along with China. They’re terminating sure grants on the idea of coverage concerns, like whether or not or not they’ve a sure DEI element and nonetheless they’re defining that.
And then you definitely see the institutional large cuts. I believe that is what occurred to Johns Hopkins with respect to the USAID cuts. It is also what occurred to Columbia with respect to that $400 million minimize – federal minimize that impacted loads of analysis. There’s – so there’s a number of domains the place they’re being impacted proper now. That is – this is not all DOGE led.
I believe we should be very cautious in relation to analysis packages the place sufferers are concerned.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: , should you make a mistake with a program like an internet site that you simply took down, you’ll be able to all the time put it again up. However if you minimize a grant to a program the place sufferers are concerned, the place continuity of care is admittedly vital to these sufferers, it’s good to make lodging for that, or not make these cuts within the first place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I do know – I’ve had some conversations – I believe DOGE is conscious of that and attempting to be conscious of these impacts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, it is a – it is an vital level to be strategic in relation to medical care.
Dr. Gottlieb, thanks to your perception.
We’ll be again in a second.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We return now to the Venezuelan deportation case. And for what’s subsequent, we’re joined by our Justice Division correspondent, Scott Macfarlane and our immigration reporter Camilo Montoya-Galvez.
It is good to have you ever each right here.
Camilo, you probably did some extraordinary reporting this week and obtained the names of the migrants who had been despatched to El Salvador. That is info that the administration refused to share with a federal decide, however you bought it.
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: That is proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What did you be taught?
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: We’re nonetheless investigating each single case on this checklist of 238 Venezuelan males who had been despatched to El Salvador to be imprisoned there, however that is what we all know. We all know that in keeping with courtroom filings and likewise our personal findings right here at CBS Information, a number of the individuals on this checklist do have felony histories within the U.S. or overseas in nations like Peru, Chile and Columbia. However we additionally know that, in keeping with the federal government, many of those individuals wouldn’t have any felony report within the U.S. And we’ve obtained paperwork from attorneys and attorneys and likewise the members of the family of the deportees who say that these individuals, a few of them, wouldn’t have any felony historical past within the U.S. However the administration is accusing all of them of being a part of this transnational gang generally known as Tren de Aragua.
However how that accusation is being made is on the heart of this story. The administration says they’ve U.S. intelligence and different methods to establish these individuals as suspected TDA members, however their family members and their attorneys say that a few of these males had been recognized as TDA merely due to tattoos.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that’s actually the place we get to the authorized nub of the argument is, are you able to, as – as Senator Paul was saying, bypass the precise to a day in courtroom on the idea of somebody having some tattoos?
So, Scott, the Trump administration goes to have this enchantment tomorrow, as I perceive it. You had been in federal courtroom Friday when the decide stated it was, quote, awfully horrifying how the administration stretched the regulation. They’re searching for this struggle. Why?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: There’s two totally different fights they’re searching for. The authorized is certainly one of them. They’ll be within the appeals courtroom tomorrow. They’re going to go to the Supreme Courtroom doubtlessly finally, attempting to consolidate energy to make it an 18th century actuality proper now the place you’ll be able to expel people who find themselves locked up presently on U.S. soil with out having to undergo the courts, although the courts try to catch errors and ensure no person’s scooped higher erroneously.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Despite the fact that you can deport them anyhow?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: You possibly can nonetheless deport them anyhow. That is one struggle they’re trying to struggle.
There’s additionally the political one, Margaret. There may be a lot political upside
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: To all of this for the Trump administration. And also you heard that from the nationwide safety advisor a number of moments in the past when he instructed you this can be a D.C. distinction. That the administration is just not precisely involved about wanting too aggressive in deporting suspected gang members. There’s every kind of wins there.
After which there’s the opposite one, Margaret. The villainization of Washington, D.C., federal judges, which might provoke the conservative base and the Trump base. And also you noticed that Friday within the courtroom with the decide, James Boesberg, pushing again on the president’s allegations that he simply desires to set these gang members free. The decide stated, they’re nonetheless locked up. You possibly can deport them the conventional manner with out invoking this 18th century regulation. Let’s examine how rather more pushback there may be from the president to the decide. There was extra in a single day on Reality Social.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They’re – sure, he is spoken about it. He is posted about this decide, elevating different issues.
Camilo, although, you even have reported out what was performed behind the scenes to deliver this all to a head, to arrange this struggle. What did you be taught?
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: What I can inform you is that primarily based on conversations with DHS sources, the administration was actively making ready for this operation effectively earlier than the president truly signed this proclamation, unbeknownst to the general public final Friday earlier than the White Home truly revealed the precise proclamation on Saturday, March fifteenth and earlier than these planes took off –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which means do it as rapidly as doable?
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: That is proper. They staged a roundup throughout the nation of suspected TDA members and transferred these individuals to a Texas detention heart. And by the point the decide held the primary emergency listening to on this case, there have been already two planes within the air and one other one able to take off.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understanding that they may must face a struggle again within the courts.
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott, the president has issued no less than three government orders that we’ve clocked impacting personal regulation corporations who represented shoppers at odds with President – or then Mr. Trump. That is dangerous for personal enterprise. A kind of regulation corporations minimize a deal, $40 million. What is the influence right here?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: I talked to one of many attorneys who’s been focused by certainly one of these actions. He says, they’re attempting to take me off the taking part in discipline. They’re attempting to take others off the taking part in discipline as we proceed to problem the administration in course. A chilling have an effect on to make it more durable to file these lawsuits which were the firewall to this point on the Trump administration.
However there is a distinction within the newest spherical of actions prohibiting these regulation corporations primarily based in Washington from doing enterprise in authorities buildings or with authorities staff. That could be a demise sentence for a Washington, D.C. regulation agency. And, in actual fact, a type of corporations, Perkins Coie, those difficult this in courtroom, stated as a lot to the decide, this may kill us. And the decide right here in Washington has, for now, held off on the Trump government motion to strip Perkins Coie. However we’ll see how lengthy that safety lasts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And this has knock=on impacts for others searching for authorized companies but in addition, as you stated, makes them laborious to simply perform.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: Particularly the stripping of safety clearances, Margaret. That makes it more durable for a whistleblower on the FBI, or the CIA, or the Pentagon to discover a lawyer to blow the whistle. It makes it doable such whistles is not going to be blown.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, as a result of they should search counsel who’ve potential to cope with categorized info.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: Proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Camilo, the administration introduced Friday they’re revoking authorized standing of half one million migrants who got here right here legally from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela throughout President Biden’s time period. That is one other struggle they wished to have. But when the intention – the said intention is to go after the worst of the worst and deport them, why concentrate on individuals who bothered to be right here legally?
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Properly, the administration would argue that the Biden administration abused its immigration government authority to create this program with out Congress and that the individuals who got here right here underneath this coverage are undercutting American staff and that they’re primarily unlawful immigrants as effectively. And now they’re turning them into unlawful immigrants by stripping them of their authorized standing, their work permits, their deportations safety. Proper now they’ve, for the subsequent 30 days, an opportunity to self-deport by means of a smartphone app. If they do not do this, DHS is warning that they are going to be discovered, arrested and deported from the nation.
And this crackdown on immigration by the administration can be extending to different components of the immigration system. We additionally know that the administration is suspending funding – federal funding for authorized companies suppliers and attorneys to assist – who assist migrant kids, who’ve left federal custody, or who’re nonetheless in federal custody and who’re going through deportation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that is all intentional, the taking funding away, even from migrant children?
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Sure, this administration doesn’t consider that federal funds must be used for people who find themselves within the nation illegally or with out authorized permission.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Gents, you are going to be busy. Thanks for breaking all of it down for us. I admire it.
MACFARLANE: Thanks.
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us right this moment. Thanks all for watching. Till subsequent week. For FACE THE NATION, I am Margaret Brennan.
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