Full transcript of
On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick
- Sen. John Barrasso, Republican of Wyoming
- Sen. Maria Cantwell, Democrat of Washington
- Rep. Don Bacon, Republican of Nebraska
- NATO Secretary Common Mark Rutte
Click on right here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: President Trump vows to reshape international commerce, and that sends inventory markets reeling. Is it simply short-term ache or a long-term downside?
President Trump delivered on his marketing campaign guarantees, placing 25 % duties on overseas autos and 10 % on imports from all international locations, however his determination to launch a shock spherical of wide-ranging tariffs on allies and adversaries alike, shocked traders and sparked recession fears.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of america): The markets are going to increase. The inventory goes to increase. The nation goes to increase.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president claims all goes in accordance with plan and hit the hyperlinks this weekend, although he was monitoring headlines about China’s determination to fireplace again with tariffs on all American merchandise.
We are going to get the newest from President Trump’s level man on tariffs, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, and verify in with the quantity two Senate Republican, John Barrasso. He is tasked with finishing up the opposite a part of the president’s financial agenda, sweeping tax cuts.
Home Republican Don Bacon and Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell may even be part of us. They need Congress to reclaim its authority over commerce coverage.
Then, because the administration continues talks with Russia for a attainable peace deal in Ukraine, we’ll ask NATO Secretary-Common Mark Rutte what the budding relationship may imply for the way forward for the Western alliance.
It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
It’s shaping as much as be one other turbulent week, as President Trump’s commerce conflict with the world escalates. The worldwide sell-off triggered by President Trump’s tariff bulletins worn out greater than $6 trillion of wealth from the U.S. inventory market in simply two days.
In a social media put up yesterday, the president urged the nation to hold robust, all this as tens of hundreds of individuals took to the streets yesterday from Washington, D.C., to Minnesota and Columbus, Ohio, protesting a lot of Trump’s insurance policies, Elon Musk and tariffs.
We start this morning with Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick.
Mr. Secretary, welcome to Face the Nation.
HOWARD LUTNICK (U.S. Commerce Secretary): Nice to be right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We see about 60 % of Individuals have cash within the inventory market, which imply that retirees could possibly be simply as involved as hedge fund managers this morning.
Did you anticipate this degree of shock within the monetary markets?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Nicely, you’ve got to understand it is a nationwide safety situation. I imply, we do not make drugs on this nation anymore. We do not make ships. We do not have sufficient metal and aluminum to struggle a battle, proper?
All our semiconductors are made abroad, so each button we press after we attempt to begin our automotive and even use our microwave, these are all semiconductors. They’re all made elsewhere. We’ve obtained to begin to defend ourselves, and we have now obtained to cease having all of the international locations of the world ripping us off.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We’ve a $1.2 trillion commerce deficit, and the remainder of the world has a surplus with us. They’re incomes our cash. They’re taking our cash.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And Donald Trump has seen this, and he’ll cease it.
So it will be an enormous change. In fact, it should be an enormous change, however the remainder of the world has been ripping us off for all these a few years. Donald Trump has seen it. He is spoken about it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive that. And…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And he is simply not going to take it anymore, and that is his mannequin.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that was abundantly clear throughout the presidential marketing campaign how a lot the president really believes in tariffs and placing it on the middle of his financial coverage.
However you noticed absolute panic within the international markets. Did you anticipate that, or had been you shocked?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: No, I feel the purpose is, you might want to reset the facility of america of America and reset it in opposition to all our allies and our enemies alike.
The concept that all of the international locations of the world can run commerce surpluses with America and purchase our issues with us, bear in mind, $1.2 trillion – in 1980, we had been a web investor, that means we owned extra of the remainder of the world than they owned of us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, it is a totally different world. It is a totally different market.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And now – and now they personal $18 trillion of us web. So which means the remainder of the world – yearly, after we run a $1.2 trillion deficit, the remainder of the world buys $1.2 trillion of America.
And it goes up and up and up, and finally we’re not going to personal America, and we’re going to be owned by the remainder of the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you speaking about…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Think about if we had a conflict and we will not construct a ship…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: … we will not fly a airplane, we will not construct our personal planes, we do not have our personal semiconductors. That is what the president is right here to repair for America. It is in his fingers and he needs to repair America. That is his likelihood to repair America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. So…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And we’d like him to repair it for our kids and our grandchildren.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, however for companies to do what you are doing, as a result of what I hear you laying out there’s a plan to reindustrialize america and to carry firms again to America.
For a CEO to decide on to speculate…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Nicely stated. Nicely stated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However for a CEO to make these choices, you recognize this, they want certainty. They should know if it prices them extra to remain abroad or if it prices them extra to maneuver right here.
So are you able to give them readability, in order that they do not simply minimize jobs as a result of they’re coping with the price of these tariffs? Are you able to inform them how lengthy they’re staying in place?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Completely.
The USA of America goes to guard the individuals who put money into America. Trillions and trillions of {dollars}, you heard the president talk about it, are coming to put money into America. That is the financial system of the world.
We’re the patron of the world, and corporations have to construct it right here and we’ll defend them for constructing it right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. So does…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We are going to assist the American staff. Sure, American staff are dearer, however they’re higher.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I obtained it.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We will defend all of the factories that come to America. And that is what’s coming right here. So, the president is on it. He will defend them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Is the ten % tariff everlasting?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Nicely, bear in mind, it is a nationwide safety situation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I obtained it. Is the ten % tariff everlasting?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And he wants to handle our price range deficit.
That – you recognize, the legal guidelines of America are the legal guidelines of America. He would really like it to be that we have to defend the businesses that make investments right here and we’re going to defend the businesses that make investments right here. That’s the coverage of america of America. That is why trillions of {dollars} are coming right here.
The ripoff of america of America is over.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: All these firms are going to return and make investments right here. That is what they’re doing. That is why they’ve dedicated trillions of {dollars}. They know that is the financial system. That is the place to go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Mr. Secretary, although – Mr. Secretary, the marketing campaign is over. You gained.
So I am asking what the plan is. So, the Treasury secretary stated on one other community: “We will maintain the course. It isn’t the form of factor you possibly can negotiate away in days or perhaps weeks.”
That makes it sound just like the tariffs are staying in place a minimum of for days or perhaps weeks. Is that appropriate? Or is the president contemplating suspending implementation to barter?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: There is no such thing as a suspending. They’re positively going to remain in place for days and weeks. That’s kind of apparent.
The president must reset international commerce. Everyone has a commerce surplus and we have now a commerce deficit. We’re paying away our future and our lives. The international locations of the world are ripping us off.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And it is obtained to finish. The president has made it crystal, crystal clear. That is the coverage.
We’re going to defend – the factories that come construct in America, we’re going to defend them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: They are going to achieve success. That is why they’ll construct in America, the best financial system within the Earth.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: All of those firms are going to return and construct right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So when three of the president’s different financial advisers who’re on different networks as we speak say that fifty totally different international locations have been calling the White Home to attempt to speak concerning the tariffs, what does that imply?
As a result of that makes it sound like there’s a negotiation, which is totally different from saying the tariffs are everlasting.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: Nicely, what it reveals is that each one these international locations know that they’ve been ripping us off and the day has come for that to finish.
Now, the issue is, it isn’t simply tariffs. Like, I offers you an instance. Like, Vietnam stated, they’d wish to be zero-zero. Bear in mind, Vietnam sends us $120 billion value of products yearly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, low-cost manufacturing.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And we ship them about $12 billion. Wait. We ship them $12 billion.
So it isn’t the tariffs. It has nothing to do with tariffs. In the event that they went to zero-zero, they’d go to $200 billion with us. We have to cease the ripoff. And nil-zero is the way in which to make them extra of a ripoff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, however we do not have zero-zero, sir.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We want…
MARGARET BRENNAN: We do not have zero-zero, really, as a result of after we noticed the president stand within the Rose Backyard holding up that chart that you simply helped make, that wasn’t really tariffs.
That was really complicated to traders, as a result of it was some form of different system. And the international locations themselves appeared form of random. Like, why are the Heard Island and McDonald Islands, which do not export to america and are fairly actually inhabited by penguins, why do they face 10 % tariffs?
Did you employ A.I. to generate this?
(LAUGHTER)
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: No. No, the thought – look, the thought is that there are various international locations left off.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why are they on the record?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: As a result of the thought – what occurs is, in the event you depart something off the record, the international locations that attempt to principally arbitrage America undergo these international locations to us.
Any nation – like, we had tariffs – the president put tariffs on China, proper, in 2018. After which what China began doing is, they began going by way of different international locations to America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: They simply constructed by way of different international locations by way of America.
And so the president is aware of that. He is uninterested in it. And he’ll repair that. So, principally, he stated, look, I can not let any a part of the world be a spot the place China or different international locations can ship by way of them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: By the…
(CROSSTALK)
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: So he ended these loopholes, these ridiculous loopholes.
And now what he is making an attempt to say is, I will repair the commerce deficit of america of America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Acquired it.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: It is a nationwide safety situation. We have to make drugs. We have to make semiconductors.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: We have to make ships. We have to have metal and aluminum. Come on, we’d like the greatness of America to really be in-built America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And he is uninterested in getting ripped off by the remainder of the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, however, simply to be clear, April 9, the so-called retaliatory tariffs, the reciprocal tariffs, I ought to say, are these coming or are they open to negotiation?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: The tariffs are coming.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: He introduced it and he wasn’t kidding.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: The tariffs are coming. In fact they’re.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Is the administration contemplating any form of offset, any form of subsidy? You talked about, the primary administration, there was some bailout to farmers to assist them cope with the ache from Chinese language retaliation.
Are you that now?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: I am – not that I’ve – I’ve not participated in any conferences with respect to that. The nation is targeted on – you notice, trillions of {dollars} of factories are going to be in-built America. That is enormous GDP. The factories being in-built America are enormous GDP.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That takes years.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And that’s going to matter to us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you’ve got stated that robots are going to fill these jobs. So, these aren’t union employee jobs.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: No, it is actually automated jobs. It is automated factories, automated factories. However the hot button is, who’s going to construct the factories, who’s going to function the factories, who’s going to make them work, nice American staff.
, we’re going to change…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You stated robots on different networks. You stated that to FOX.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: … the armies of thousands and thousands of individuals – properly, bear in mind, the military of thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of human beings screwing in little, little screws to make iPhones, that form of factor goes to return to America.
It will be automated. And nice Individuals, the tradecraft of America, goes to repair them, goes to work on them. They are going to be mechanics. There’s going to be HVAC specialists. There’s going to be electricians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: The tradecraft of America, our excessive school- educated Individuals, the core to our work power goes to have the best resurgence…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: … of jobs within the historical past of America to work on these high-tech factories, that are all coming to America. That is what is going on to construct our subsequent era of America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you involved that – are you involved, within the time it can take for an organization to maneuver to America, that it’ll profit China within the – within the quick time period, that different markets will look to different suppliers, as an alternative of coping with america?
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: That’s ridiculous. The issue is, everybody on the planet sells to us.
Our financial system is the patron of the world. We’re the one one with a commerce deficit. The remainder of the world has a commerce surplus. Why does Europe have a commerce surplus? Is there one thing about Europe that is particular? Critically, are they a unique world than we’re? Why are they promoting $200 billion a 12 months…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary…
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: … extra to us?
It is as a result of it isn’t honest. The foundations are made not honest. And President Trump goes to repair them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And he is doing it for America, and he is doing it to your kids and mine and our grandchildren. That is the second that america of America takes maintain of itself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And Donald Trump’s been speaking about this his complete life. That is Donald Trump’s agenda.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY HOWARD LUTNICK: And we’re all right here to assist him execute it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll take him at his phrase, fairly actually.
Thanks, Mr. Secretary, to your time this morning.
Face the Nation might be again in a minute. Stick with us.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by one of many prime Republicans within the Senate, Wyoming’s John Barrasso, the whip.
Good to have you ever right here in particular person, Senator.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO (R-Wyoming): Thanks. Nice to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I wish to ask you about what the secretary simply laid out. He didn’t describe this as leverage to get to a deal, stated this – take him actually – the tariffs are right here to remain.
We’ve already seen some conservative teams, just like the New Civil Liberties Alliance, file go well with, saying that these will not be on strong constitutional and authorized floor. Do you assume the president’s on strong authorized floor?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely I feel he’s.
However, look, that is a few monumental change within the path of our authorities. We’re – and I am speaking a few change by way of the scale, in addition to the priorities. And it is a 180-degree change from what we had for the final 4 years with huge authorities, huge spending, huge taxes.
And we have now a complete financial plan to get to a robust, wholesome, rising financial system for the American individuals. That is why we handed what we did simply yesterday within the Senate, as a result of we would like individuals to have extra – higher jobs, extra alternatives, and extra money in their very own pockets.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: So, by way of the tariffs, I consider they seem to be a instrument.
And I feel we have now to go after China. They’ve been abusing us for years. And I consider the president is on const – agency constitutional grounds.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However once I hear you discuss kind of the one-two punch on the financial plan for the president, tax cuts being one in every of them, is not there some coordination on sequencing right here?
As a result of would not you go forward and take away the rules and go forward with the tax cuts earlier than you go to conflict with your entire world over commerce?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, the president has been speaking about these tariffs each speech that I used to be with him throughout the marketing campaign.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He was certainly.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: There is no such thing as a shock right here. He is additionally talked about ensuring we do not have this $4 trillion tax improve that the Democrats wish to have.
We’ve a number of work to do to reverse the injury that is been completed during the last 4 years with the Democrats that led to the best inflation in 40 years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: So the president needs to get a number of issues completed. And I wish to get a number of issues completed in Congress as a part of this complete financial plan.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am positive you noticed the Fed chair additionally say that we could also be dealing with inflation now partially due to these tariffs.
some within the Senate are very involved about having extra management and say over commerce. Maria Cantwell, a senator who might be with us later on this program, partnered with Chuck Grassley, one of the vital highly effective Republicans, with this invoice to attempt to claw again management. They need 48 hours’ discover on tariffs, counsel they did not get a lot this time.
They usually need them to run out after 60 days except Congress approves of them. Will management let this effort advance?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, Senator Grassley is chairman of the Judiciary Committee.
However let me simply say, the president is on agency authorized grounds right here. Over the past 90 years, Congress has given the presidents, totally different presidents, increasingly more authority to cope with nationwide safety points with regard to tariffs, to make use of tariffs with regard to unfair commerce. So the president has the authority.
I feel that is much like the invoice that Chuck Grassley launched about 5 years in the past. They’d debate then. Most of the cosponsors are the identical. It will get an intensive listening to, after which we’ll see the place it goes from there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you assume, although, that Congress must have extra of a say on commerce points?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, the Structure says Congress has your entire say, however during the last 90 years…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is not the way in which it is taking part in out now.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: … increasingly more authority has been given to the president to have the ability to be extra nimble to react by way of nationwide safety, by way of unfair commerce.
And I feel President Trump is doing what he has each proper to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However it sounds such as you’re open to creating that extra clear on what the bounds needs to be?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, there might be a dialogue within the Senate. We are going to see which approach the dialogue goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You talked about the work that obtained completed over the weekend. You probably did take the step ahead in advancing the president’s tax agenda and elevating the debt ceiling with this price range framework.
what a struggle you are going to have with fellow Republicans over within the Home. Jodey Arrington, the Funds chairman, referred to as it unserious and disappointing, accused your Republican colleagues of making $6 trillion in new prices and a mere $4 billion in enforceable cuts.
Is that this headed for failure within the Home?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: No.
We’re united in what we consider by way of ensuring we have now a nation that’s protected and affluent. The speaker of the Home and the management of the Home got here out and endorsed what we have now completed and stated, hey, we ought to maneuver forward and take that subsequent step.
So what we have now seen…
MARGARET BRENNAN: 5 Republicans have come out in opposition to it. And it is a fairly slender margin.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: However all of them agree with what we wish to do, which is unleash American vitality to get vitality costs down for individuals. All of them agree that we should be sure that we do not have these $4 trillion tax will increase.
All of them wish to ensure that we safe the border. So the entire components of what we have now listed here are a part of what we wish to have completed. Now, I am the whip. My job is to depend votes. We want 51 within the Senate. They want 218 within the Home. We’ve to iron out the variations. We’re dedicated to getting it completed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We all know they’re brief about 5 votes proper now. So it seems like, if it’s a must to take one other chunk on the apple – the explanation that this issues a lot is procedurally you’ve got to clear the way in which for all these huge stuff you wish to get completed, just like the tax cuts, by September.
Speaker Johnson stated he needs it completed by Could. Senator Lankford stated it has to get completed by August. Does all of the instability velocity issues up for you?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, I am not frightened about deadlines. I wish to get – I’ve an urgency to get it completed as quickly as we will, so we will get these insurance policies in place and likewise to supply the knowledge to people who find themselves frightened, are my taxes going to go up on the finish of the 12 months?
They wish to have the boldness that they are not going to go up. I feel the extra certainty we will present to the parents across the nation, that they are going to see that we have now – on the fitting path for a robust, wholesome, rising financial system.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: And we wish to get the nation again on observe. And the earlier we will get this handed, the earlier we will reverse the injury that the Democrats have completed during the last 4 years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve got to get Speaker Johnson to wrangle these votes, although…
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … which you admit they are not there proper now?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, we’ll put the language collectively. We do must iron out the variations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: And I am dedicated to getting it completed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in about 18 months, Congress will face elections, these midterm races.
Here is your fellow Republican Senator Rand Paul.
(Start VT)
SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-Kentucky): Traditionally, tariffs have additionally led to political decimation. When McKinley most famously put tariffs on in 1890, they misplaced 50 % of their seats within the subsequent election.
When Hawt-Smooley (sic) placed on their tariff within the early Thirties, we misplaced the Home and the Senate for 60 years.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you afraid historical past goes to repeat itself in 2026?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, no, I am not. There is a great distance between now and the 2026 elections.
President Trump gained based mostly on two issues, that the Democrats had been the occasion of excessive costs and an open border. Nobody doubted President Trump’s means to get the border closed, and 137,000 unlawful immigrants…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: … in March of final 12 months of Biden, this previous March, all the way down to 7,000. So he has been in a position to do this.
The Republicans are going to be judged on the financial system, which is why I am not involved about – and…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the Fed chairman is saying inflation goes to probably go up and there is nice uncertainty.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: That is why I wish to get this complete financial plan in place as quickly as attainable, the knowledge that the tax will increase will not be going to be there, the knowledge that we have now American vitality and people jobs, the knowledge we’re bringing jobs again into the nation.
All of these issues are going to be sure that, by the election 18 months from now, that individuals say, sure, we’re on the fitting path.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Republicans have gotten the nation again. The nation is again on observe.
I imply, proper now, from I feel it is even your individual CBS ballot, by way of proper observe/incorrect observe, proper path/incorrect path, we’re on the highest we have now been in 20 years by way of the path the nation is heading.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, however that was pre-tariffs.
Senator Ted Cruz stated this:
(Start VT)
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R-Texas): Tariffs are a tax on customers, and I am not a fan of jacking up taxes on American customers, so my hope is these tariffs are short-lived, they usually function leverage to decrease tariffs throughout the globe.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a number of concern, together with out of your – your previous buddy Mitch McConnell. When do you get involved that that is going to harm the financial story you are attempting to inform?
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Nicely, you will not be shocked. Ted and I had been on the ground simply yesterday, 2:00 within the morning.
I stated, you recognize, “I wager Margaret’s going to point out that tape of what you simply stated about tariffs.” And we joked about it just a little bit.
However there’s concern. I imply, there’s concern throughout the nation. Individuals are watching the markets. This isn’t a shock. Individuals are involved about this – 40(okay) – 401(okay)s, retirement plans, they do the perfect when we have now confidence sooner or later, when we have now a robust, wholesome, rising financial system.
And that is why we have now a complete financial plan to cope with all of this, to creating positive the taxes do not go up, to chop a lot of this reckless Washington spending. Folks noticed the record of all of the horrible issues we have been spending cash on within the final 4 years, and folks had been offended and indignant at that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: We’re – what we’re doing can be reducing a number of this reckless Washington spending, provides individuals extra money in their very own pockets.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However you recognize markets transfer lots sooner than Congress does, Senator.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: They do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’ve got obtained your work minimize out for you.
However we respect you laying out the main points for us.
SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again with much more Face the Nation.
Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: If you happen to miss an interview or an episode of Face the Nation, you possibly can watch it on our YouTube web page or on FacetheNation.com.
We might be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We might be proper again with Democratic Senator Maria Cantwell and Republican Congressman Don Bacon. They’ve some concepts about how Congress can rein within the president’s energy to situation tariffs.
And we’ll talk about that on the opposite facet of this break. So, stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
We flip now to the highest Democrat on the Commerce Committee, Washington state senator, Maria Cantwell.
Good to have you ever right here.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): Thanks a lot for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Senator, you heard the – the Senate whip discuss your effort to claw again some management over commerce. He stated it can have an intensive listening to and we’ll see the place it goes from there. Do you’ve got any indication of momentum amongst a few of your Republican colleagues?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Nicely, the primary day of interdiction we signed up seven Republicans. So, normally you aren’t getting first introduction and get so many individuals on board. However I feel it reveals the nervousness that individuals have. I am positive in the event that they hearken to their constituents, shopper challenges are already beginning to floor. And positively the inventory market’s affect on retirement revenue is shaking lots of people.
So, I am positive my colleagues will hear from them. At present shopper teams are asserting and retailers the truth that they need Congress to take this motion up. And so, I feel we’re listening to from an enormous phase of the financial system, the patron spending is an enormous a part of GDP, they usually’re frightened.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you’ve got obtained, what six Republicans at this level?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Seven.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Seven. And now you are saying retailers. Like, you’ve got CEOs who’re onboard or business teams?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Trade teams, just like the Retailers Affiliation, the outside business, the Client Electronics Group, Primary Road Alliance, organizations who know their bread and butter comes from shopper spending, which is an enormous a part of our financial system. And so, they’re very anxious a few plan.
Pay attention, I listened to your phase. I’ve by no means heard a lot about fuzzy math in my life. And the notion that that chart is getting a lot nationwide consideration, you recognize, the letters in Greek – all of the stuff that is unnecessary. That is what individuals are – customers are saying. How is that this serving to me, in a time of inflation? You are including to my price with a tax on my shopper items.
And so, I feel that is why we’re gaining help from these organizations as we speak.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Canada and China are amongst your state’s largest export markets. Each of – have already introduced retaliatory tariffs. I do know you’ve got stated beforehand that the primary Trump administration and the extra restricted tariffs nonetheless to this present day have an effect in your state. So, how a lot wiggle room do we have now with time right here? Since you heard the Commerce secretary say that principally these aren’t a negotiating ploy, that they’re staying in place. That is what he says.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Nicely, I –
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, how lengthy earlier than injury?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Nicely, we’re – we have now seen injury from the primary Trump tariffs on issues like apples, and markets closed. And what you do is you find yourself then dropping farm household economies. You do not essentially lose farmland. Some huge company would possibly purchase it. However you lose household farms. So, our goal needs to be to assist farmers open up doorways to those abroad markets.
The USA’ aim right here needs to be to make nice manufactured merchandise and develop nice agriculture merchandise after which get these markets opened up. However what the president is doing is as an alternative of constructing these alliances, he principally is getting right into a commerce conflict that’s having unbelievable affect, when his final tariffs on India –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: We reopened with the apple market and we went to India and stated, let’s – let’s do away with this. And we had been profitable. And that is the form of motion we’d have – we wish to see as we speak.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, your state is without doubt one of the prime 5 unionized states within the nation. You’ve gotten the world’s largest airplane producer, Boeing, in Washington. So, I ponder if these union staff are as supportive of the tariffs because the auto business staff have been. They aren’t in opposition to them, though some are Democrats. In reality, they assume a few of them, together with on this program, like Shawn Fain, have been very supportive.
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Nicely, we’re seeing – you could possibly get the letter from the Machinist Worldwide. They do not help the president on this. And that’s as a result of they perceive how a lot america and Canada have develop into an built-in provide chain. That helped us decrease the price of U.S. manufacturing for vehicles and for airplanes. And reducing that price implies that we’re much more aggressive.
So, they do not just like the uncertainty. And what they wish to see as an alternative is the continuation of funding from the final administration. So, while you consider chips and science, and also you consider the Inflation Discount Act that made investments in subsequent era expertise, the sectors which have a number of staff wish to win on innovation. They know that funding in innovation will assist us outpace our competitors, not a tariff that makes the product dearer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Boeing’s CEO testified, 80 % of the airplanes they ship are to markets outdoors the U.S., 80 % of the content material of these airplanes are manufactured right here. They’ve a vested curiosity in clearing the decks for themselves right here. What are they telling you about their conversations with the administration?
SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Nicely, all people’s involved that the administration would possibly retaliate in opposition to them. That, you recognize, that if they are not entrance and middle on this – on this debate, however they’re clear that they’re being heard. I feel individuals are saying that their technique is – there is a demand for 40,000 airplanes and we may improve 1,000 extra planes being offered, it could have a big impact on the commerce deficit.
So, they’re making an attempt so say, Mr. President, do not minimize the innovation and funding. Do not make semiconductors dearer. Do not make the components dearer. Make it cheaper. And america wager on the American employee, and they’ll do the remaining in relation to the innovation that is required for America to construct the perfect merchandise.
So, I feel the president’s math is incorrect. I feel he does not know the calculus goes to be so devastating to American customers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
CANTWELL: And that is why these teams are becoming a member of us as we speak.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Cantwell, thanks to your time as we speak.
CANTWELL: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Nebraska Republican Congressman Don Bacon, who joins us this morning from Omaha.
Congressman, I’ve lots to get to with you on plenty of matters right here. However simply to – to select up on the tariffs that we have been talking about. I do know you’re introducing companion laws to what Senator Cantwell simply laid out for us. However as I perceive it, within the Home, Republican leaders have already restricted the flexibility to rein in modifications to the Mexico, Canada and China tariffs. They’ve tucked language into the persevering with decision.
Does that get in your approach when you’re making an attempt to now claw again some congressional management of tariffs?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON (R-NE): Nicely, to start with, good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me on.
And I loved listening to Senator Cantwell. I – I help the laws that Senator Grassley, Senator Cantwell, we have now a complete of seven Republicans within the Senate. And I’ve some starting help within the Home facet which can unveil tomorrow. Will probably be tougher to move this within the Home little doubt. I feel if we get 60 votes within the Senate it can put strain on the Home to have a look at this. And if we proceed to see the inventory market go a sure path or if we see inflation or unemployment shift in a foul approach, I feel then this invoice turns into a really viable invoice.
So, it is not going to move tomorrow –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Or perhaps within the subsequent couple weeks. However this might be within the queue that we will use. And it is time that Congress restores its authorities right here. And the Structure is evident, the Home and the Senate, Congress has the facility of tariffs and taxes. And we gave a few of that energy to government department. And I feel, in hindsight, that was a mistake.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However I hear you saying you’ve got some momentum. Respectfully, sir, the president talked on a regular basis throughout the marketing campaign about tariffs. He put them on the centerpiece of his coverage. He talked concerning the glory days of the 1800s and wanting to return to them. Did Republicans simply not take him severely?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Nicely, there’s a few sides to your query, Margaret. It is a good query. You are proper, although, while you look again, it was Republicans supported tariffs within the 1800s. And up and thru, what, 1930, after we handed the Smoot-Hartley Act that created one of many worst – properly, the worst depressions we ever had, we realized from that, that tariffs and protectionism doesn’t work and that free commerce, ultimately, so long as it is honest, we would like honest commerce. And I help the president desirous to get equity. A few of these international locations do deal with us incorrect. However honest commerce needs to be the aim.
And also you’re proper, the president talked about these. He didn’t conceal as that is a part of his agenda. However here is my tackle it, and I’ve – I have been finding out politics since I used to be like 13 years previous. Folks voted for President Trump due to the border. And he has actually delivered there. They voted for him, too, as a result of inflation surpassed wage will increase. They’ve – they had been poorer as we speak than they had been 4 years in the past. And I actually assume individuals voted for President Trump due to that, the border, and perhaps crime in the event that they – crime within the huge cities.
I do not assume, ultimately, I do not assume tariffs was actually an enormous think about individuals’s decision-making when it got here to final November.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, I simply – I do know we definitely lined them on this program. And it’s stunning to me, or maybe it should not be, that the enterprise neighborhood is so silent proper now. As Senator Cantwell stated, she stated they’re afraid.
However there’s a conservative group, the New Civil Liberties Alliance, that filed go well with to problem these tariffs in court docket. Do you assume it’s the courts the place this finally will get settled?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: I feel finally it is in Congress as soon as we see sufficient of this, however perhaps the courts as properly.
The Structure makes it very clear, Congress has management of taxes. And by the way in which – and let’s be candid, tariffs are a tax. However in addition they point out tariffs within the Structure. And we gave the president emergency powers. So, the courts should resolve is what – what simply occurred, is that this emergency powers or is that this a complete change in tariff coverage. And I feel it is actually the latter. That is the place Congress has to step in and say, do we actually wish to create this new coverage on tariffs? And whether it is, it ought to come from the Congress and never the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ask you as properly about your work on the Armed Companies Committee. President Trump has fired the highest two officers on the head of the very highly effective Nationwide Safety Company. It is one of the vital highly effective intelligence companies we have now. It vacuums up info world wide by way of wiretapping, indicators intercepts they usually work with the army, with Cyber Command.
Have you ever acquired any clarification to Congress as to why Common Haugh, the four-star basic unanimously confirmed to the job, was abruptly dismissed?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Margaret, I’ve not. However let me simply touch upon this. Common Haugh is the very best chief within the U.S. army to steer Cyber Command and Nationwide Safety Company. He commanded each as a result of half of Cyber Command depends on NSA to be efficient in cyber operations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: So, it’s a must to have this crew. And he was answerable for each. He served 34 years within the army, and his total profession was working indicators intelligence or cyber operations. Frankly, he’s the perfect that we had. They usually additionally fired the quantity two particular person on the Nationwide Safety Company with out an evidence.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: I’ll inform you, this places us again. It hurts us. And I’ll inform you, Russia and China as we speak are laughing at us as a result of we simply fired the very best leaders, essentially the most certified. Guys that we spent three and a half a long time getting ready to have this function, and he is gone.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: And it is – it is heartbreaking to see that that call was made with out clarification. And it damage us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And – and our reporting, as a community, is that it got here as a choice following an Oval Workplace assembly with a right-wing activist named Laura Loomer, who has unfold conspiracy theories about 9/11, stated anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant issues, racist issues.
It additionally occurred as a minimum of six different Nationwide Safety Council officers on the White Home had been dismissed on the recommendation of Laura Loomer.
I am questioning, once more respectfully, sir, Republicans are in management and you’ve got oversight. Are there going to be hearings on this? Are there different Republicans who’re involved and going to do one thing about it?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: I am positive there might be some oversight. I am a – I am the chairman of the Cyber Subcommittee, and so I assure you that we are going to have varied army leaders, we’ll have the secretary of protection communicate to us, and he might be requested about this. And I’ll –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did he even know?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: I do not know that he knew, however we’ll discover out after we ask him. We’ll ask him. He’ll say that that is the president’s proper. And the president does have constitutional proper to do that. However it does not make it applicable or – OK, he might have the constitutional authority to do it, but it surely does not make it proper.
And, ultimately, I will make it clear, we simply eliminated essentially the most certified army chief that we needed to run Cyber Command and NSA. And we’ll ask about it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Now, we have now oversight. That does not imply we will – the president does have the constitutional authority to do that. However we have now a – we have now a chance to probe into this and ask why.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you –
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: And I’ve a duty to clarify this was incorrect. It damage us. It damage our nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In a short time, do you assume it’s so that the president can break up up these two instructions and put somebody of his personal selecting, a political ally, on the prime of the NSA?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: , it is attainable. I do know that is on the market. However I might say that is a mistake. NSA is essential to Cyber Command. You may’t do Cyber Command with out the inputs from the Nationwide Safety Company, the SECNET (ph).
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: If you happen to separate them and put them below two totally different instructions, then you are going to create a dysfunctional partnership and it’ll damage our cyber operations in opposition to China and Russia.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
OK. Congressman, we might like to have you ever again for one more dialog about cyber one time.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ve to depart it there.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: On Friday we spoke with NATO Secretary Common Mark Rutte and started our dialog by asking concerning the potential affect of the Trump administration’s sweeping international tariffs on the safety alliance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK RUTTE, SECRETARY GENERAL, NATO: There are tensions between the allies due to these – this tariffs query. However this isn’t in regards to the alliance as an entire as a result of there might be probably affect on – on the economies, however to not an extent that it’ll affect our collective protection. That is my agency conviction.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The subsequent summit is now going to be held in June. And leaders there anticipated to hike the army price range spending aim from 2 % to three %. The Trump administration needs all of it the way in which as much as spending about 5 % on a rustic’s personal protection.
How do you persuade members to spend extra, to counter the menace from Russia, at a time when the U.S. goes nearer to it and the U.S. is placing financial strain on Europe?
MARK RUTTE: What Trump has completed since he got here into workplace is break the impasse in relation to this horrible conflict in Ukraine as a result of we have got to cease the killing. We’ve obtained to cease the combating. And I commend him for that.
After which in relation to protection spending, final couple of months, right here within the European facet of NATO, it’s staggering, the quantity of billions coming in. We’ve to proceed doing this as a result of, as I stated in December, if he would stick with the previous 2 %, we can not defend ourselves right here in three to 5 years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However on the identical time that President Trump is asking for a peace deal in Ukraine, there’s this parallel, separate effort to restore America’s relationship with Russia. Does not the U.S. getting nearer to Russia undercut your efforts to counter Russia?
MARK RUTTE: In fact, I’m – I’m not within the room when all these talks happen. However what I’m seeing from a – from distance and listening to from my American colleagues and all – together with the president, whom I visited a pair weeks in the past in a really profitable assembly we had within the Oval Workplace and – and – and through lunch. There may be this effort to carry this conflict to an finish. The aim clearly is within the court docket of the Russians. They aren’t transferring quick sufficient, is my impression, together with the impression I am getting from my American interlocutors. That – that Russia actually has to do extra to carry this conflict to an finish. The Ukrainians are – are actually near the American place. And – and – and we have now seen – we have now to see how far the Individuals can get this.
However I’m utterly supporting that effort as a result of this conflict of safety – – safety, it was unsustainable in the long run. So many individuals dying. A lot of the Ukrainian infrastructure being broken. Cities being destroyed. It is obtained to finish.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Common Cavoli, who you recognize properly because the supreme allied commander of NATO, the U.S. basic, is right here in Washington testifying this week. He stated, “Russia intends to decrease U.S. management and affect.” What is going on to NATO members right here? And – and is Russia succeeding on this destabilization marketing campaign?
MARK RUTTE: What we’re seeing in Europe, but in addition within the U.S., however – however let me communicate for the European facet of NATO, is that the Russians, by way of cyberattacks, assassination makes an attempt, jamming business airplanes within the Baltic space, cyberattacks on the nationwide well being service in the UK, reducing important (INAUDIBLE) infrastructure between the Baltic international locations and Finland, and in different components of the Baltic – within the Baltic Sea. They’re – they’re conducting this marketing campaign.
The excellent news is that as NATO, as collective, we’re a lot, significantly better, not solely at assessing what is going on, but in addition ensuring that we stop the subsequent steps on this marketing campaign from taking place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In order that destabilization marketing campaign has not halted or paused as these makes an attempt to dealer peace have been underway?
MARK RUTTE: Nicely, I imply, this complete destabilization marketing campaign is occurring for years now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
MARK RUTTE: And I’ve no each day evaluation. However the experiences we’re getting is that Russia continues to be very energetic. We’re nonetheless frightened about, for instance, (INAUDIBLE) infrastructure. However issues do (INAUDIBLE). And in his function as supreme allied commander, we have now in – in lower than ten days introduced collectively an enormous endeavor by European NATO allies within the – within the Baltic Sea to essentially make it very tough for the Russians to proceed doing this.
And once more they – they hate us for this. And – and I really like that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are roughly about 90,000 or extra U.S. troops stationed in Europe proper now. Secretary Hegseth stated Europe mustn’t assume that presence goes to final eternally. I do know you say that the U.S. is dedicated to NATO, however do you’ve got any sense of how briskly or vital this sort of drawdown that is being talked about by Hegseth could possibly be? And is there NATO backup plan?
MARK RUTTE: There aren’t any concrete plans for the drawdown, however we all know, and Pete Hegseth was very clear on this, is that this U.S. administration, however, by the way in which, that is U.S. coverage since 2010, to pivot extra in direction of Asia, in direction of the Indo-Pacific.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper.
MARK RUTTE: And settlement we have now is that we are going to do no matter is critical, and in surprises approach. I utterly acknowledge the truth that U.S. has, america, has extra theaters to take care of, not solely the Euro-Atlantic, but in addition the Indo-Pacific.
And by the way in which, additionally because of President Trump and his place on this, as NATO we might be increasingly more energetic within the Indo-Pacific, with our companions. I’ll go to Japan subsequent week to have my conferences there with the senior management to see how we will intensify that sturdy relationship we have already got with the Indo-Pacific.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have raised concern that China is constructing in direction of 1,000 nuclear warheads by 2030. Is {that a} direct menace to NATO?
MARK RUTTE: It’s. It’s a direct menace to the soundness of the entire world, together with NATO territory, completely. They’ve now extra NATO ships crusing than america. We’ve an issue. The USA, a part of NATO, Canadian a part of NATO, European a part of the NATO, that we aren’t producing sufficient protection industrial product. We’re producing, in – in a full 12 months in ammunition what Russia is producing in three months, that is completely loopy. And that is why the president and I mentioned and the opposite senior leaders within the U.S. and I mentioned additionally with European allies that we have now not solely to ramp up spending, but in addition the protection industrial manufacturing, that features reducing the purple tape, each within the U.S. and right here in Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, simply to rapidly make clear that – China’s nuclear arsenal is a direct menace to NATO?
MARK RUTTE: Nicely, it is there not for use in opposition to China. However I might say, amore usually, let’s not be naive about China. The construct up of their armed forces is going down at a tempo which is unimaginable. And after we discuss Ukraine and bringing Ukraine to a sturdy finish and a peace, a sturdy peace ultimately, let’s not overlook that Russia is working with North Korea and China and Iran, and that ultimately it’s an viewers of 1 watching what comes out of this. And that’s the first secretary of the communist occasion of China, Xi Jinping, and he’ll entry when there’s a deal on Ukraine, who comes out on prime. Is it the west or is it Russia? And whether it is Russia, he would get his ideas going about his territorial claims within the Indo-Pacific. So, there are huge dangers concerned. And that is why we have now to carry Ukraine to a peace which is lasting and that Putin won’t ever do that once more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You may see our full interview on cbsnews.com and on our YouTube web page.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us as we speak. Thanks for watching. Till subsequent week.
For FACE THE NATION, I am Margaret Brennan.
