Transcript: Kaja Kallas on

The next is the transcript of an interview with European Union high diplomat Kaja Kallas that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on March 2, 2025.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks for making time. So you’re the EU’s high diplomat, which suggests you must assist symbolize 27 totally different nations. President Trump mentioned the EU was fashioned with a purpose to screw the USA, that is the aim of it. What was your response to that comment?

HIGH REPRESENTATIVE VICE PRESIDENT KAJA KALLAS:  Europe is a peace mission. You recognize, it was created in order that we would not have wars between the members of European Union, and we have not had. And, after all, additionally to do issues collectively, cooperate extra. You recognize, coming from a rustic that joined the European Union 20, 20 years in the past. Then, we had been really, you already know, pushed by the Individuals, you already know, you’ll not get into NATO, however, however Europe, the European Union, is one thing that it is best to be part of as a result of it is, it is a good mission additionally for the transatlantic relations. So I used to be fairly stunned to listen to a remark like that.

MARGARET BRENNAN:  Are you aware what the President meant by it? 

HRVP KALLAS: Properly, you must ask the President, so.

MARGARET BRENNAN:  Properly, it appears to mirror that there’s some pretty excessive pressure with the US at this level.

HRVP KALLAS: Sure. The query is why? We’ve at all times been good allies. I imply, we have now been working collectively and we have now been buddies and allies, what involves the world in numerous components of the world, what is occurring. We’ve been cooperating, whether or not it involves Ukraine, whether or not it involves, additionally, Center East. And we see- on the planet, we see powers like Russia, North Korea, Iran, extra covertly China, working collectively. And I feel that is the second the place we have now to work collectively as transatlantic companions.

MARGARET BRENNAN:  Secretary of State Rubio, you had introduced you supposed to fulfill with him whilst you had been right here, after which that assembly was canceled. Why?

HRVP KALLAS: Oh, effectively, it was mentioned that it is a calendar points. However I am certain we’re going to meet once more, as a result of we had excellent conferences in Munich, and there are quite a lot of matters that we have to focus on. So we’re going to meet in G7 in two weeks time. 

MARGARET BRENNAN:  So you do not suppose this was a slight?

HRVP KALLAS: Properly, you must ask Secretary of State, however, I imply, we have now had such good encounters earlier than, so I do not actually learn into you know- I do know that we aren’t on high of our calendars. So, so you already know issues may occur.

MARGARET BRENNAN:  Properly, you are right here now, France’s President Emmanuel Macron was simply right here, the Prime Minister of the UK, President Zelenskyy is flying right here. Are all the European leaders coordinating? And if that’s the case, what is the message?

HRVP KALLAS: We’re coordinating. And naturally, the message is there are a number of layers. One is that the struggle that Ukraine is having is just not solely about Ukraine sovereignty, however it’s a lot, a lot broader. It is about freedom of the free world, actually. It’s in regards to the world the place worldwide legislation applies and the world the place may doesn’t make proper. It’s clear that Russia attacked Ukraine. There may be one aggressor and one sufferer. And we have to actually be sure that Russia would not assault once more. And for that, we have to focus our efforts. I imply placing politically and economically stress on Russia to cease this struggle, however on the similar time additionally assist Ukraine to defend itself. 

MARGARET BRENNAN:  However what you simply mentioned, is factually correct, Russia invaded Ukraine. However the Trump administration has determined now to not say that explicitly, arguing that the President wants negotiating room. Do you suppose that that is persuasive to Vladimir Putin?

HRVP KALLAS: Properly, it’s actually, you already know, a really sturdy Russian narrative that they need to- need to actually push saying that, you already know, oh, it is a battle between two equal events, you already know. And to clear- I imply, create this chaos the place it’s totally clear. It is vitally clear. One nation attacked one other nation, very brutally with power, and is bombing Ukraine on daily basis. I imply, President Trump says that he desires the killing to cease. I do not suppose that anyone desires the killing to cease greater than the Ukrainians. And with a purpose to obtain that, we should always all put the stress on Putin, as a result of he can cease the killing by not bombing Ukraine and the Ukrainians in order that they do not should defend themselves. And that is why our plan, our insurance policies, to actually put the stress on Russia. We should not overestimate the ability of Russia and underestimate our personal energy. We all know that their economic system is just not doing effectively. I imply, their inflation is over 20%, their Nationwide Fund is nearly utterly depleted. They do not have the identical revenues from fuel and oil that they used to to fund the struggle machine. So really, if we focus our efforts, we will put the stress in order that they’d cease the struggle, to not supply them something, you already know, on a plate, as well as what they’ve already achieved.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So why do you suppose acknowledging who’s accountable does matter?

HRVP KALLAS: Properly, it does matter who’s accountable, so who’s accountable for this as effectively. And why it additionally issues is that we have now the United Nations Constitution the place we have now agreed how nations are, you already know, interacting with one another. And it says very clearly that you would be able to’t assault sovereignty, territorial integrity of one other nation, and should you do, there are penalties. And why is it necessary? It is vital for small nations on the planet for whom that is the one factor that protects them. If we do not actually defend this precept, then we’ll see all these developments that we do not need to see. As a result of all of the nations who’re afraid of their neighbors will need to go for nuclear weapons, as a result of that is the one factor that protects them. It is not the worldwide legislation anymore. And all of the nations who’ve urge for food for the neighbors’ territory will need to have a nuclear weapon, as a result of it’s the solely factor by- you already know, threatening to make use of this weapon, you’ll be able to have what you- what you need, as a result of that is what Russia is doing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And but, on the United Nations this week, you identified the U.S. aligned with “new buddies,” Russia, Belarus, Sudan, North Korea, on the UN. The U.S. voted with them and towards a European backed decision about Ukraine that demanded the withdrawal of Russian troops. The Trump administration would say, it is a UN decision. It would not have a sensible affect. Does it?

HRVP KALLAS: Properly, sure, not so instantly. It would not have a sensible affect, however it- clearly, I imply, it’s saying what sort of rules on the planet we’re supporting. And naturally, we had been co-sponsoring, along with the USA, the decision to assist Ukraine. And it was a shock to us that U.S. instantly modified the place. I need to, you already know, actually level out that we had the decision drafted along with the brand new administration, concerning the assist for Ukraine. However after they met the Russians, one thing occurred after that, as a result of the conduct modified. So- so the query is, the place can we go from right here? Our will and- and want is to work along with our transatlantic companions for the rules that United States has at all times stood for. I imply, I am coming from the nation that regained our independence in 1991. It was the time when, you already know, Ronald Reagan was actually pushing exhausting for, you already know, struggle for freedom, and- and we’re so grateful for America for doing this. As a result of we received our independence and freedom again, and due to this fact additionally the prosperity and the effectively being of our individuals. So we’re very grateful. And I am not- and I do not need to- I do not need to see this- I do not need to let this go. I imply, that, America, you already know, is- is just not preventing for- for freedom and independence, and, you already know, the rules, the essential rules, of the worldwide legislation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Zelenskyy mentioned Ukraine has intelligence that Russia plans to ship troops to Belarus, and from there stage forces, both to assault Ukraine or one other European nation. Do you share that evaluation that Russia will proceed its march by means of Europe?

HRVP KALLAS: Russia has been investing greater than 9% of its GDP on army. As compared, European nations are spending 2%. I feel my very own nation is spending over 3%, but- however I feel America is spending one thing round 3 or 4% of its GDP. So should you’re investing a lot on the army, you’ll want to use it once more. And that is why it is extremely necessary how we- how we act right here. In 2008, they attacked Georgia. Nothing occurred. There was not the sturdy response from the West. In 2014, they annexed Crimea and attacked Ukraine. There was not the sturdy response. So, you already know, there was a ceasefire, however ceasefire solely gave them chance to regroup and rearm. That is why this can be very necessary that we do not make the identical mistake once more. If there’s a pause, so they’re able to get their forces to collect once more, we’ll simply see extra wars. All people desires peace, however the peace needs to be a long-lasting peace. And for lasting peace, it has to put- the stress needs to be placed on Russia in order that they do not do that once more.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the- President Zelenskyy and President Macron of France have each talked about creating Europe’s personal military separate from NATO. Do you see that as seemingly?

HRVP KALLAS: I imply, NATO is a protection alliance, and- and it’s comprised of 32 totally different armies of, of the NATO member states. So, NATO construction is the army construction, and by way of struggle, crucial is, who offers orders to whom? So when you have, you already know, these through- 32 armies that cooperate collectively, and you’ve got one construction, then it is clear who offers orders to whom. When you have–

MARGARET BRENNAN: And proper now, it is the USA to the Supreme Allied Commander.

HRVP KALLAS: Sure, it’s true. However the- however the structure- construction is there. I imply, command construction, but additionally communication, all the things that’s essential, how we work collectively. So if we are saying that we create a parallel construction, then, you already know, when, by way of disaster, then who offers orders to whom? As a result of the armies are simply the 32. In order that’s why I have never supported a particular European military. I am simply saying that every one the armies which can be there in Europe, but additionally in NATO, have to work collectively. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the EU proper now does have sanctions on Russia, and Secretary Rubio has pointed to that, saying, Look, Europe has a say on this. They are going to should make their very own choices on sanctions. Do you suppose you’ll be able to preserve all 27 nations in line and may preserve that stress on Russia?

KAJA KALLAS: We’ve managed up to now and- and, after all, it is getting more durable on a regular basis, however we have now managed to maintain this unity. And I am– 

MARGARET BRENNAN: — Hungary’s Prime Minister threatens that–  

KAJA KALLAS: — That’s true, however on the similar time, I imply, we’re additionally pondering of various plans. As a result of, you already know, for instance, the sanctions, the frozen property, for instance. I imply, we see Russia inflicting injury to Ukraine on daily basis. We all know what this prices. So when we have now the frozen property, then it’s, you already know, the proceeds can be utilized for, actually, the damages that Russia has induced to Ukraine. And there are– 

MARGARET BRENNAN: — That is 200 billion Euros– 

KAJA KALLAS: — 300 billion.  

MARGARET BRENNAN: 300 billion euros of Russian property which can be frozen. However why is not that already being tapped? Is it simply because the banking system is averse? 

KAJA KALLAS: There are a number of arguments, and some- some nations aren’t in favor due to the totally different dangers. However I feel, you already know, in the long run, all people will come to the identical conclusion. It should not be our taxpayers that pay for the damages attributable to Russia in Ukraine. It must be Russia who pays.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you in regards to the commerce dispute that appears to be brewing between the US and the EU. President Trump mentioned he’ll put a 25% tariff on imports, on automobiles and all the issues. Do you suppose {that a} commerce struggle is avoidable at this level? Do you intend to convey a criticism to the World Commerce Group?

KAJA KALLAS: We do not need the commerce struggle with United States. I feel there are not any winners in commerce wars. And I imply, yesterday, I used to be right here and watching the information as effectively, and also you hear the information that client confidence in United States is dropping. And you already know, when you have commerce wars, it will increase the costs, and in the long run, the customers can pay for this. So- so it is- it’s not- I imply, there are not any winners in commerce wars, and we do not need to begin one. However after all, we may also shield our curiosity if a commerce struggle is began towards us. 

 10:45:23  

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve got been assembly with American lawmakers whilst you’re in Washington. Do you get the sense that any of them are going to steer President Trump to alter his place on Russia?

KAJA KALLAS: There are sturdy supporters of Ukraine in, I imply, each side of the aisle and have been very, very a lot understanding what’s going on. I do not know their relationship with President Trump, however I’ve seen the sturdy will that there’s. Possibly this essential uncooked supplies deal that President Trump is doing with President Zelenskyy will improve the financial curiosity of United States in Ukraine. That can, in flip, additionally give, I imply, the interest- safety curiosity, to guard these financial pursuits that you’ve in Ukraine. So, so possibly that is likely one of the instruments.

MARGARET BRENNAN: In order that essential minerals deal the US and Ukraine are imagined to collectively spend money on would not have any safety ensures for Ukraine. 

KAJA KALLAS: It would not have, and- and I imply, we have now been saying that, you already know, the safety of Ukraine can be within the curiosity of United States, as a result of, as we have now been saying, it is a lot broader than- than simply Ukraine. And when, you already know, our American counterparts are speaking about China, however on the similar time saying that, you already know, we won’t step as much as Russia. I imply, China is far greater economic system than Russia is, and far greater military than Russia is. Should you’re saying that we won’t step as much as Russia, how can we, you already know, actually be capable to step as much as China then. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: And earlier than I allow you to go, I need to ask you about Iran. Europe should decide within the fall about what to do if Iran would not agree to carry diplomatic talks about its nuclear program. What’s your sense of whether or not Iran goes to barter away its program?

KAJA KALLAS: We’re going to have subsequent International Affairs assembly, International Affairs ministers assembly, and we’ll focus on Iran. Our frequent place, how we method Iran. It’s clear the way in which Iran operates, I imply serving to Russia within the struggle towards Ukraine, but additionally their actions within the Center East, that we have now to have a a lot stronger stance in relation to Iran. As a result of growing a nuclear weapon, it is extraordinarily harmful. And there is likely one of the factors the place we have to cooperate with the USA as effectively.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks very a lot to your time right here right now.