Transcript: Philanthropist and creator David Rubenstein on
The next is the total transcript of an interview with David Rubenstein, philanthropist and creator, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Dec. 29, 2024.
MAJOR GARRETT: David, it is nice to see you. Thanks for becoming a member of us.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
MAJOR GARRETT: You do not know this, however I’ve waged a sort of unsuccessful journalistic battle in opposition to the phrase unprecedented. My sense is, as disruptive as our present occasions have been, we have had jarring and disruptive occasions earlier than in American historical past. How would you evaluate, primarily based in your examine of the presidency, our unsettled occasions now to unsettled occasions previous?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, nothing is as dangerous because the Civil Conflict once we had 3% of our inhabitants killed and the preventing in Washington was so dangerous that about 60 totally different occasions members of Congress hit different members of Congress on the ground of the Congress. So we’re not fairly there but. Clearly, although, we’re going into some uncharted waters as a result of now we have a president coming again who had been president earlier than. That hadn’t occurred since Grover Cleveland was reelected in 1892 and Trump is- received extra energy than I believe many individuals would have thought by the advantage of his victory measurement. In different phrases, he did not win the way in which that, as an instance, Richard Nixon did in his second time period or Ronald Reagan in his second time period, however he is gained by sufficient so that individuals really feel he is received a mandate and definitely he feels he is received a mandate. And I do suppose he will act like he is received a mandate. And Washington is bracing for what is going on to occur
MAJOR GARRETT: Associated to that, earlier than the election outcomes had been recognized, polls indicated fairly persistently that Trump supporters had been afraid if Harris would win, Harris supporters had been afraid if Trump would win. Based mostly in your examine of this establishment, the presidency, are you able to recall a time the place that worry of an final result was as prevalent because it was main into this election?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, there’ve been a few occasions when folks actually had been afraid that the subsequent particular person coming in that was the alternative occasion would actually damage the nation in some ways. Clearly, my former boss, Jimmy Carter, actually feared Ronald Reagan. He thought that Ronald Reagan was going to do- undo lots of the issues that Carter had executed. Clearly, Reagan gained by a landslide and you have seen different occasions when this simply occurred as nicely. So, for instance, when FDR gained the primary time, Herbert Hoover couldn’t imagine that this man, Herbert Hoover, had been such a distinguished American earlier than he was president. And whereas he was president, he had issues. However he was a really distinguished particular person. He by no means took FDR severely, and FDR did not actually take Hoover that severely. In truth, he refused throughout the lengthy interval of the- of the- of the interval between the election and the inauguration. He refused to essentially meet with him, primarily, or met with him briefly. And so they simply did not need something to do with one another.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Apparently, in these days, the inauguration occurred about six months after the election. The election was in November and the inauguration was in March. An extended time frame. It looks as if now we have got a in all probability time frame, which is about three months or so.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about Herbert Hoover. He fascinates me as a result of going into the presidency, he was about as completed an American as there ever been on the world stage. And but he was overwhelmed by the job of the presidency.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: That is appropriate. Herbert Hoover had been very distinguished for his reduction efforts in Europe after World Conflict 1. He was thought-about an extremely intel– proficient particular person. He was a fantastic Secretary of Commerce, and folks thought he ought to be President of america. He was President of america. However then he was frozen. He could not actually cope with the Nice Melancholy when it arose, and he actually was pushed out of workplace overwhelmingly. And even after he misplaced, he stored making an attempt to get Roosevelt to hearken to him and say, we should always do that collectively as two presidents. However Roosevelt ignored that.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about Grover Cleveland. There’s not a chapter within the ebook about Grover Cleveland. Is there something that retroactively fascinates you in regards to the Cleveland Presidency now that Trump has returned to workplace? Or are you equally fascinated by the point during which he was president, the Gilded Age?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, Grover Cleveland just isn’t that well-known to many individuals. In truth, one time there is a story about- where- that Tip O’Neill stated to Ronald Reagan, when he is giving me a tour of the- of the Capitol, he stated, that is the desk that was Grover Cleveland’s. And Reagan stated, oh I performed him in an image. And he stated, no, that was Grover Cleveland Alexander. However Grover Cleveland was a Democrat, former governor of New York, very nicely revered. However he misplaced the election in 1888 and so they got here again in 1892. Now, one of many issues we do not actually know is whether or not a president, when he has a second time period after he is been out of workplace, whether or not he’ll be more energizing, whether or not he’ll carry higher folks, win, whether or not he’ll be extra skilled, for instance– And the second- most second phrases have issues.
Ronald Reagan sec- second time period, had issues. Invoice Clinton’s had issues. Clearly Richard Nixon did, as a result of possibly the folks get drained and so they’re not as sharp as they’re or the recent folks are available in and so they’re not skilled. Now you are going to have an entire new administration coming in, a recent perspective if you’ve received an skilled president. We simply do not know what the impression will likely be. Grover Cleveland’s second time period was fairly profitable and, you recognize, possibly Trump’s will likely be as nicely.
MAJOR GARRETT: One of many issues the nation struggled with this final 18 months or so was the collision of politics and the regulation. Do you suppose there are any classes to be discovered from this conflict? And the politics that got here from a conflict of making an attempt to indict and check out somebody who had been President of america and was aspiring to that workplace once more?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I believe there’s a feeling amongst many individuals that it wasn’t a good suggestion to indict the president of america. I believe the trial in New York, the place Trump was convicted, I believe actually helped him in his election effort. I believe it emboldened a variety of his supporters who say the Justice Division – in that case, it wasn’t the Justice Division, it was the prosecutor in New York. However it’s actually politicizing the authorized system. And I believe there are numerous individuals who are- who’re Trump supporters who imagine that the indictments that got here out of the particular prosecutor, Jack Smith, had been actually political as nicely. And so I believe there’s each side really feel that the opposite aspect is actually speaking previous one another. The people who find themselves within the Justice Division now really feel that these indictments had been truthful and proper and have particular prosecutor and so forth. The Trump folks imagine they had been utterly political. I hope that going ahead that the Justice Division just isn’t seen as political as a result of one of many strengths of this nation has been the rule of regulation. One of many causes folks come to this nation is we’re seen as a spot the place has a rule of regulation. There’s the American dream. You possibly can stand up and so forth. However folks aren’t prosecuted for his or her political opinions. And I hope that the Justice Division that is coming in now will proceed that custom. I notice many individuals on the opposite aspect would say, the Trump aspect would say that we’re simply going to do what what was executed to us. I hope that does not occur. I hope we principally return to the rule of regulation. And all people feels that if there’s prosecutions, they’re actually reputable and so they’re not due to political causes.
MAJOR GARRETT: Do you worry that this course of is undercut the nationwide religion in that system of justice?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, our system has been round for a few hundred years. It is not going to crumble that rapidly. However I do hope that we are able to discover methods to carry the nation collectively. Donald Trump can’t get reelected underneath our present legal guidelines. You would change the Structure, however within the present legal guidelines, he cannot get reelected. And by the tip of his second time period, he can be,
you recognize, 82, 83 years outdated, presumably would not wish to run once more anyway. So I believe that he has the flexibility to step again and say, I will do what’s finest for the nation. I will marketing campaign a sure means. I did marketing campaign a sure means, however now I will do sure issues for the nation. And I believe lots of people who aren’t Trump supporters would say, I hope he’ll take that perspective. I wish to do what’s finest for the nation. And now I haven’t got to fret about reelection. I am actually going to do issues which are finest for the nation. And I’m assured they are going to try this.
MAJOR GARRETT: Based mostly in your examine of the presidency, do you suppose we charge presidents on their initiatives or exterior occasions that knock them off their initiatives?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, most presidents plan sure issues after which occasions come alongside and so they cannot predict them. I imply, Jimmy Carter didn’t predict the hostage takeover, and that basically, actually ruined his presidency, in all probability prevented him from being reelected.
Most presidents will discover worldwide occasions will overcome what they anticipated, or typically home occasions. George W Bush had a Nice Recession that he couldn’t have anticipated, and the economic system virtually collapsed. He could not have anticipated that.
MAJOR GARRETT: He additionally had 9/11.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Proper, 9/11, he couldn’t-
(BEGIN CROSSTALK)
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: No person may have anticipated that.
MAJOR GARRETT: He got here in—
(END CROSSTALK)
MAJOR GARRETT: —to be a home president specializing in training and the economic system.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: That is appropriate. After which all of us received into abroad wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that had been by no means anticipated. So I imagine that you just can’t predict what is going on to occur. And it’s important to have good people who find themselves keen to fret about what’s good for the nation. And so they have a pacesetter who’s all the time targeted on what’s finest for the nation, not what’s finest for me, what’s finest for the nation.
MAJOR GARRETT: Do you have got a president in thoughts who, primarily based in your examine, grew in your regard? And a President, in your thoughts, who, primarily based in your examine, received extra diminished?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Harry Truman left workplace extraordinarily unpopular, very unpopular, and he was regarded as a- a inappropriate successor to the good FDR. Now, due to books by David McCullough and different folks have written nice books about Truman, folks see him as one in all our nice presidents, as a result of post-World Conflict II, he helped finish the struggle as a result of he dropped the atomic bomb, which many individuals say was a mistake. However I might say many historians suppose it was essential to keep away from—
MAJOR GARRETT: And he by no means doubted.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: He by no means doubted. He by no means had self-doubt. Self-doubt was one- was not one in all his issues. He all the time believed it was the proper resolution. However he additionally was chargeable for NATO, the UN, the World Financial institution, the IMF, and the CIA, which he created as nicely. All these items, he created—
MAJOR GARRETT: The popularity of Israel.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Sure, he acknowledged Israel though his secretary of state threatened to resign over it. George Marshall stated, I’ll resign over this, although he did not. And it was the State- all the State Division was in opposition to the re- the popularity of Israel. So he was an individual who’s actually risen up. An individual who’s gone down, I might say there are two which have gone down loads. One is Andrew Jackson. Bear in mind, Democrats used to say, we’ll have a Jefferson-Jackson Day dinner. You do not have that anymore as a result of Jackson is now broadly seen as being racist and really anti Native American. And he actually did many issues that I believe killed lots of people, notably in the- within the Native American group. So he is not likely nicely revered at this time by students. One other particular person I might say is- is that, whose popularity has gone down is Woodrow Wilson. Woodrow Wilson was the good reformer after being president of Princeton. Two years later, he’s- he is governor of- of- of New Jersey, then president of america. Nonetheless, he now’s broadly seen as having executed two issues that had been actually massive errors. One, he resegregated the federal workforce and had been built-in. Two, and this was very damaging, I believe, as nicely. He- he had a stroke with about 18 months to go. He could not actually do what he had executed earlier than. He hid that from the general public and his spouse primarily grew to become a shadow president. She was actually making choices and deciding issues that possibly he ought to have determined. And the general public did not know this, and that was a giant drawback.
MAJOR GARRETT: You typically ask biographers what query they might most wish to pose to the topic of their presidential biography. Let me develop on that. In the event you may go to dinner with any president, who would it not be, and what query would you wish to be sure to received answered?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: No doubt, the best president and the best American, ever, is Abraham Lincoln. He was an individual who was not an abolitionist, however finally got here to free the slaves by way of the Emancipation Proclamation. And he additionally gained the Civil Conflict, although many individuals within the North did not actually wish to battle the Civil Conflict. They are saying, let the South go. We’ll have our personal nation. Lincoln stated, no, we’ll maintain the union collectively. And he did that. We misplaced 3% of our inhabitants within the struggle, however he stored the union collectively, and I believe, made america a stronger nation in consequence. We ended slavery finally due to the thirteenth Modification. However most significantly, he did it with humility. He did not run round saying, look, I simply gained the Civil Conflict. I simply did the Gettysburg Handle. Is not that a fantastic speech? He did not try this. He did not brag about it. He was very humble. And I believe he had a humorousness and a way of perspective that could be a actually good factor for presidents. So he can be far the particular person I might wish to have dinner with. And I wish to ask him, do you have got any regrets about not having freed the slaves earlier? Do you have got any regrets about not eliminating a few of your generals earlier, who weren’t superb, and but he waited a few years earlier than he received Ulysses S. Grant in. Grant can be an individual I ought to point out. He had probably the most superb meteoric rise of just about anyone who’s turn out to be president. He was promoting firewood on the streets of St. Louis in 1860. The struggle breaks out in 1861, roughly, and eight years later, he is president of america. I imply, it is simply superb.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about humility. George W. Bush informed you in your interview with him that that was an important attribute a president can possess. I’ve learn different phrases which are vital for presidents: braveness, compassion, curiosity, decisiveness. Based mostly in your examine, what would you say is an important?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I believe an important factor is having a perspective that you just actually wish to do what’s proper for the American folks. You are not making an attempt to earn money. You are not making an attempt to feather your individual nest. You are not making an attempt to fret about historical past. You are simply making an attempt to do what’s finest for the American folks. The qualities that I love in leaders are people who find themselves fairly clever, however not geniuses, you do not must be a genius to be a fantastic president. People who find themselves keen to hearken to different folks. Those that have some humility. Individuals which are extremely moral. These are the qualities that I believe nice leaders have in any space. And positively president of america. And apparently, america has had a restricted variety of folks to function president. 47 folks served as president of america. However we have had a variety of very, very proficient folks that haven’t served as president of america. Do we actually get the most effective folks to serve or not? I believe no nation will get completely the most effective folks in its inhabitants to all the time serve, as a result of being president is an advanced factor. Nice geniuses could not wish to be president of america. Nice leaders could say, I would quite do one thing at a college or a basis or an organization. I do not wish to actually be any individual the political constraints {that a} president has. However for- general, we have gotten some fairly proficient individuals who’ve served as president of america, and we have been lucky. Lincoln, Washington, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, Jefferson, and modern-day presidents, Eisenhower, amongst others, have had some actually nice attributes, and the nation’s good, and I believe, higher off for having had good folks serve. And one in all my issues sooner or later is that as a result of it is turn out to be so political in Washington typically and so they fight- infighting has been so intense, that I am unsure as many good folks wish to stand up and run for president sooner or later as we have seen prior to now.
MAJOR GARRETT: Choosing up on that, do you have got a way of which system has produced higher presidents: the occasion system, that means the bosses, or the first system during which voters are in cost?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, the first system is one which we might say is nice as a result of all people has an opportunity to vote. And the backroom system that we had years in the past is not so fantastic. However the backroom system did produce some fairly good folks, too. So I do not know that there is anyone that is higher than the opposite. However I do suppose that when you have got extra transparency about who ought to be president and who’s operating and who’s getting cash from folks, I believe that is in all probability factor. Transparency typically is a greater factor than- than having issues be obfuscated.
MAJOR GARRETT: You talked about in your very first reply, the Civil Conflict, the best time of testing in our nation’s historical past. You do not have to be very aggressive on-line to seek out informal discuss amongst People about one other civil struggle. They bandy it about with some frequency. How fearful are you about that? And do you suppose the mere dialogue of it creates the potential of an inevitability?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, I believe there was dialogue. Some folks say the purple states and the blue states ought to separate, however I do not suppose that is sensible or actually going to occur. I believe the nation realizes that we’re the strongest energy on the earth economically, militarily, politically, culturally, and half as a result of a rustic’s received a sufficiently big inhabitants and half as a result of now we have a variety of attributes in purple and blue states. I do not suppose it is sensible. Individuals speak about that, however I do not suppose that is going to occur. The nation just isn’t going to be cut up up the way in which it was within the Civil Conflict. I simply do not see that as being sensible or fascinating.
MAJOR GARRETT: Is there any doubt in your thoughts that presidents, all presidents, should guard in opposition to bitterness, anger, resentment, a number of the issues that fueled their pursuit of the workplace within the first place? That means as soon as they received there, they should set these issues apart, though they had been a part of the engine?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: All people goes by way of life and has ups and downs, and also you get a variety of bitterness and also you get resentment of individuals. Individuals which are good presidents hopefully stand up above that. Lots of people criticize Abraham Lincoln for a lot of, many issues. They known as him all types of horrible names. And so they did say he was barely human. And—
MAJOR GARRETT: Known as him a gorilla.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Sure. And he rose above that. And I believe it’s important to rise above it. And hopefully, when you do not have to fret about politics anymore, in a second time period, for instance, you possibly can rise above all of the issues you’ve got had. Resentment is- is a superb factor in life for a few minutes, after which it’s best to recover from it. And you recognize, I am resenting some issues occasionally and I attempt to recover from it. While you’re president of america, if you happen to carry your resentments too lengthy, it could have an effect on different folks adversely. So I believe within the case of President Trump, for instance, clearly he has some resentments. However I believe general, I imagine he will rise above that in his second time period.
MAJOR GARRETT: Is Richard Nixon, which you in your ebook describe as a tragic determine, virtually a Shakespearean- like tragic determine, the most-available cautionary story about resentments and the presidency?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Richard Nixon, as I stated within the book- if solely Shakespeare had been alive to put in writing about Richard Nixon, it could have been an exquisite tragedy. Here is a person who’s actually proficient, very sensible. He stumbles operating for president in 1960, barely loses, loses for 1962 within the governorship of California and comes again and is elected in 1968 in opposition to all the chances. However he resented the folks that seemed down on him. He resented the liberals. He resented the ‘Ivy Leaguers,’ as he would name them. And he actually, I believe, took these resentments and he perpetuated them by way of his chief of employees, Bob Haldeman, and different folks. And the consequence was a horrible factor known as Watergate. I believe Richard Nixon, had he not had Watergate, I believe he would have gone down as a very spectacular president due to the opening to China, issues he did on the atmosphere. However Watergate will likely be what he is remembered for.
Sadly, it did not need to occur. And truly it – amazingly, that he did not have the supporters that Donald Trump has on Capitol Hill. For instance, Donald Trump has monumental help amongst his Republicans on Capitol Hill. Richard Nixon actually did not have that sort of help. Had Richard Nixon burned the tapes earlier than they had been subpoenaed, I believe he would have stayed in workplace, as a result of no person would have believed what was within the tapes. And he in all probability would have been inside his authorized proper to eliminate these tapes as a result of they weren’t subpoenaed at the moment. And for nationwide safety causes, he may have stated, ‘I’ve received to destroy them.’ However he did not imagine that the Supreme Courtroom would ever take away the tapes from him. And he all the time was utilizing them, I imagine, to assist write his- his memoirs.
MAJOR GARRETT: Was he the least moral president in our historical past?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I do not suppose there’s- that is straightforward to say as a result of some presidents had, uh, points that we do not find out about as a lot. For instance, Warren Harding. Warren Harding was broadly seen as having tolerated a variety of scandals in his administration. Ulysses S. Grant, whereas an sincere man, tolerated a variety of unethical habits. He simply–
MAJOR GARRETT: Of his subordinates and pals.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Yeah. So I do not know that- Grant was sincere himself, however he was not- he was too trusting of sure folks in his administration. Harding was broadly thought to not be probably the most sincere of politicians. Richard Nixon, um, wasn’t an individual who was making an attempt to earn money for himself essentially. He wasn’t grafting himself into- into enterprise offers and so forth. However I believe he had some moral failings.
MAJOR GARRETT: You labored on the Carter marketing campaign and inside the Carter White Home. How did that inform your curiosity about different presidents, and did it harden or soften your sense of how troublesome the job is?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively, if you work within the White Home as I did, after I was 27, you notice what an unimaginable job it’s and the way highly effective the place might be. You additionally acknowledge that you just make a mistake, you recognize, the entire world is aware of about it. So I started to be intellectually curious in regards to the presidency after I labored there, however I used to be eager about it earlier than. I would all the time been within the presidency. However if you work within the White Home and also you see a president up shut, it does are likely to preserve you curious about it. And I’ve lived in Washington ever since I left the White Home. And so I’ve all the time been eager about assembly presidents, speaking to presidents. And I do loads to sort of help presidential memorials and monuments and so forth. And so it is simply been part of my life that I believe could be very gratifying to me.
MAJOR GARRETT: You have talked to biographers and presidents. Who’s extra candid?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Biographers are in all probability going to be extra candid for positive. However presidents, once they get to the latter levels of their life and so they can look again with some dispassionate views on issues, I believe they are often sincere. I believe Invoice Clinton has a ebook out now about his post-presidency, and I believe he is fairly sincere about his failings and a few of his errors that he made. I believe Jimmy Carter, earlier than he was- lack of ability, lack of ability to speak actually proper now, he cannot actually talk. However I believe he acknowledged a few of his failings after he left workplace and so forth. I believe when you have got perspective of being out of workplace for ten years, 20 years, 30 years, it makes you way more open to being sincere about what actually occurred.
MAJOR GARRETT: Presidents proper after they depart are fairly defensive.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: In fact, as a result of when presidents depart instantly, they’re nonetheless making an attempt to defend their picture. And I believe it is a vital factor for them. And keep in mind, now we have a novel system. No different nation on the earth perpetuates their former leaders in fairly the way in which we do. We now have massive presidential libraries and different issues like that. And these are a means for our leaders to sort of perpetuate their picture. And I do not suppose it is a horrible factor, however I- I do suppose we should always acknowledge you are going to take 10 or 20 years earlier than any individual has a perspective that will likely be actually sincere about how they carried out.
MAJOR GARRETT: President Trump informed you it is a lonely job to be president, however Trump’s a loner. Everybody is aware of that. He says that about himself. And as your ebook reveals and different books have, the presidential story is filled with very shut advisers, pals, confidants. Do you regard the presidency as lonely a job as Trump described?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Individuals have typically stated it is the loneliest job on the earth. Which may be an exaggeration, but it surely’s a really lonely job as a result of ultimately, you are making the ultimate resolution. As Harry Truman stated, ‘The buck stops right here.’ While you make that closing resolution, you possibly can’t actually say, ‘Effectively, any individual else made it for me,’ or ‘I actually did not make that call. My employees did it.’ You probably did it. And it’s important to, ultimately, sit down and take into consideration what you are going to actually need the nation to do. And it’s important to make that call. It is a very lonely course of.
MAJOR GARRETT: Does the job change the president or does the president change the job?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: I believe the job adjustments the president greater than the president adjustments the job, since you’ve received a big federal paperwork, a number of million workers. You have received a big navy arsenal you have to oversee as nicely. And you have got the world occasions that are- which are across the globe which are going to alter issues. So I believe the presidents, once they are available in, they’ve nice plans and so they have the most effective intentions, however typically it is simply very exhausting to get these items executed.
MAJOR GARRETT: The ebook’s known as ‘The Highest Calling.’ Is the presidency the best calling? Some may argue that an age defining innovation is a better calling, or being a captain of business is a better calling, or simply being a easy CEO using tens of hundreds of individuals is a better calling. Why is it the best calling?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: The rationale I known as it the best calling (and I had traditionally stated the personal fairness, my occupation, was the best calling, however that was extra tongue-in-cheek) is that this: when Woodrow Wilson went to Paris to assist finish World Conflict One, he was cheered by a whole lot and a whole lot of hundreds of Parisians, and folks for the primary time realized an important particular person in america, on the earth actually, is the president of america. And that is been true virtually since Wilson got here again from Paris. When FDR was operating the world actually successfully as a result of he was president of america throughout World Conflict Two, he was an important particular person on the earth, for positive. And I believe ever since then, due to the financial, navy, political energy of america, whoever is the chief of america is sort of actually probably the most highly effective particular person on the earth and pursuing what I might name the best calling, as a result of you possibly can have an effect on the lives, lives of individuals a lot extra considerably as president of america than another job on the earth.
MAJOR GARRETT: Final query: What makes a president’s legacy, the presidency or the individuals that president locations on the Supreme Courtroom?
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: Effectively the Supreme Courtroom justices reside 10, 20, 30, 40 years after a president. So that they do have a huge impact. However ultimately, I believe what the president does along with his personal actions, versus placing folks on the court docket, might be going to be his greatest legacy or her greatest legacy sooner or later. There is not any doubt, although, that some justices on the court docket have been there for a very long time, and so they actually have formed coverage in ways in which folks could not have anticipated once they went on the court docket. However I believe the president of america, actually what he does when he is president of america, not simply the appointments, however what he is executed by way of insurance policies he is carried out and pursued might be the largest legacy.
MAJOR GARRETT: Thanks very a lot.
DAVID RUBENSTEIN: My pleasure. Thanks.
